down into the hole some, but not too much...
Vortec worth it??
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 3,030
Likes: 17
From: White Pine / Dandridge TN
When I lived in Charlotte, NC I found a machine shop that rebuild vortec heads. He had several pairs in stock. I paid $400.00//pair. This included new Z-28 springs, used but clean valve covers and used self aligning rocker arms. I reused my pushrods, cam and lifters. I was already in need of a new intake. You nmay want to consider looking for used but rebuilt vortecs in your area.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,672
Likes: 1
From: New Cumberland PA
You can shop around and get pieces from different sources. You wind up saving some cash that way. Ebay is always a source as there are some good deals there, just make sure you know you need and check their rating.
There are some places like Scoggin Dickey, Salle, Pace, Jegs, that have fair prices that will get you in that price range.
Here is a link to Scoggins Dickey for heads, intake, gaskets http://www.sdpc2000.com/catalog/2172...mer-Intake.htm
Push rods http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerc...55&prmenbr=361
Cam Kit w/Lifters http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerc...68&prmenbr=361
Rockers http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerc...59&prmenbr=361
Price of the above is $1090 and includes gaskets. Check around and you should be able to find a nice set of centerbolt alum valve covers for $40-60. That puts you at $1150, the former $1100 was not including gaskets. The above items were randomly picked. Shop around and you should be able save.
There are some places like Scoggin Dickey, Salle, Pace, Jegs, that have fair prices that will get you in that price range.
Here is a link to Scoggins Dickey for heads, intake, gaskets http://www.sdpc2000.com/catalog/2172...mer-Intake.htm
Push rods http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerc...55&prmenbr=361
Cam Kit w/Lifters http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerc...68&prmenbr=361
Rockers http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerc...59&prmenbr=361
Price of the above is $1090 and includes gaskets. Check around and you should be able to find a nice set of centerbolt alum valve covers for $40-60. That puts you at $1150, the former $1100 was not including gaskets. The above items were randomly picked. Shop around and you should be able save.
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 241
Likes: 0
From: Ravenna Ohio
What springs do i need to to get .488 to work please specify. Someone said they drop right in right. Anything else i need to do. Lucky me i'm pulling these heads and intake off my bros car so i only had to pay for the cam. Thats almost a free mod.
Racer
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 492
Likes: 0
From: Birmingham AL
I've been doing some research and this is a little off topic to the Vortec question at hand but this seems to be THE place to discuss heads currently.
OK, so I compared the Vortecs to the Summits to the Sportsman II heads and with the price I'm seeing for assembled Sportsman heads at about $400 each, why no discussion on the Sportsman? They have a huge intake runner (220cc), upsized 2.02/1.60 valves, and excellent lift. The Summits are about the same on valve size and lift but the intake runner is puny at 165cc (vs 220cc on the Sportsman and 175cc on the Vortec). The Vortecs modified to have the extra lift are about the same price as a pair of Sportsmans but you don't get the larger valves or intake runner.
So, what's the experience with Sportsman II heads? Vizard swears by these heads in his book on budget small block performance.
OK, so I compared the Vortecs to the Summits to the Sportsman II heads and with the price I'm seeing for assembled Sportsman heads at about $400 each, why no discussion on the Sportsman? They have a huge intake runner (220cc), upsized 2.02/1.60 valves, and excellent lift. The Summits are about the same on valve size and lift but the intake runner is puny at 165cc (vs 220cc on the Sportsman and 175cc on the Vortec). The Vortecs modified to have the extra lift are about the same price as a pair of Sportsmans but you don't get the larger valves or intake runner.
So, what's the experience with Sportsman II heads? Vizard swears by these heads in his book on budget small block performance.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,456
Likes: 2
From: Coming home from Luckenbach Texas
Big intake runners are good at high rpms, because they flow better -- good if you race or like to go over 5000 rpm on a regular basis. Smaller runners provide good midrange power and quick responsiveness -- good for a driver where midrange torque is important. The bottom line is that you want to choose the best head for your application.
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Pro
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 672
Likes: 0
From: Quebec
Originally Posted by steves_77vette
...OK, so I compared the Vortecs to the Summits to the Sportsman II heads and with the price I'm seeing for assembled Sportsman heads at about $400 each, why no discussion on the Sportsman? They have a huge intake runner (220cc), upsized 2.02/1.60 valves, and excellent lift. The Summits are about the same on valve size and lift but the intake runner is puny at 165cc (vs 220cc on the Sportsman and 175cc on the Vortec). The Vortecs modified to have the extra lift are about the same price as a pair of Sportsmans but you don't get the larger valves or intake runner...
For the spring question, I installed Scoggin-Dickey .550 inch lift spring that goes right in with no machining what so ever. You just have to remove the internal damper or second spring. The stock clearance from the top of the guide seal to the bottom of the valve retainer was .525 to .535 inch on all valves. I run a .500 inch cam with no problem. I installed screw-in stud for safety.
I ran 300 rwhp last summer with 13.30 @ 108 mph on street tire and 3.54 rear. With more tweaking, I hope to be close to 13.00 and 320-30 rwhp since I have a manual trans with a 4 degrees retard on my cam.
Stephan
Last edited by American Boy; Apr 6, 2005 at 02:25 PM.
Racer
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 492
Likes: 0
From: Birmingham AL
Originally Posted by page62
Big intake runners are good at high rpms, because they flow better -- good if you race or like to go over 5000 rpm on a regular basis. Smaller runners provide good midrange power and quick responsiveness -- good for a driver where midrange torque is important. The bottom line is that you want to choose the best head for your application.
Pro
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 672
Likes: 0
From: Quebec
Originally Posted by steves_77vette
I'm confused. How does a SMALLER runner improve torque? I thought it was all about the flow into the chamber and the mixture of the gas to air. In which case the better flow regardless of rpm should provide a better mixture and better torque leading to hp. Of course given all things are equal in comparing with the chamber, valve size, etc.
Stephan
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,672
Likes: 1
From: New Cumberland PA
Originally Posted by steves_77vette
OK, so I compared the Vortecs to the Summits to the Sportsman II heads and with the price I'm seeing for assembled Sportsman heads at about $400 each, why no discussion on the Sportsman? They have a huge intake runner (220cc), upsized 2.02/1.60 valves, and excellent lift.
The little 175cc Vortecs still outflow them in this comparison. The Vortecs cost about $460 for the pair, a considerable savings. The outflow everying in the category 1 class (under 180cc) including all the aluminum heads they tested. They out flow, or are close to, most of the heads in the next category.
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 241
Likes: 0
From: Ravenna Ohio
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,672
Likes: 1
From: New Cumberland PA
Originally Posted by JDRez42
Here is what I found in regards to the springs for the stock head and springs.
Valvespring Seat: 1.300” O.D., 0.850” I.D
Valvesprings: Single wire with damper 1.235” O.D., 0.875” I.D. 75-pound seat pressure @ 1.700” installed height Coil-bind @ 1.150”
The ones from Scoggins: Single Valve Spring has an outer diameter of 1.32".
This spring is .020" bigger than the Vortec pocket. A little work may be required.
Another option is to use Crane Cam’s 10309-1 drop-in valve spring and retainer kit which is good for .550” lift with no machining. The downside to this is $$. The cost is in the range of about $150 or a little more.
Here is the specs:
Outside Diameter of Outer Spring (in): 1.255
Inside Diameter of Spring (in): 0.870
Spring Rate (lbs/in): 409
As you can see, this spring it the same dimension as the stock spring and will drop in.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 947
Likes: 0
From: I can explain it to you, but I can't comprehend it for ya.
JDRez42,
Those are the exact springs I used in both sets of Vortec heads that I've set-up. On the first set, the springs dropped right in with no modifications at all to the spring pockets or towers.
On the second set, the spring pockets had to be openned up just a bit so, I guess it will just depend on the individual heads. Still, having the spring pockets opened is no big deal for the machine shop.
Other guys run these springs on the Vortecs which will handle up to .550 lift http://www.sdpc2000.com/catalog/2060...ve-Springs.htm
Or these if you not runnin a lot of lift on your cam (These will only handle .490 Lift)http://www.sdpc2000.com/catalog/2060...lve-Spring.htm
Notice that both these springs are 1.25 dia. where the LT4 springs are 1.32 Dia. If you use the Z28 springs just make sure they clear the spring towers. I would much rather open the pockets up a bit for the bigger springs that shave the spring towers for the smaller springs to set down in the pockets. Not sure if one way is better or not, just my preference.
I think any of the three of those springs will suit you well.
I don't have any expereince with the Z28 springs in Vortec so I can't comment on em, but I did set up a set of 882's for my brother-in-laws suburban with the .490 max lift Z-28 springs and they seem to work fine.
Those are the exact springs I used in both sets of Vortec heads that I've set-up. On the first set, the springs dropped right in with no modifications at all to the spring pockets or towers.
On the second set, the spring pockets had to be openned up just a bit so, I guess it will just depend on the individual heads. Still, having the spring pockets opened is no big deal for the machine shop.
Other guys run these springs on the Vortecs which will handle up to .550 lift http://www.sdpc2000.com/catalog/2060...ve-Springs.htm
Or these if you not runnin a lot of lift on your cam (These will only handle .490 Lift)http://www.sdpc2000.com/catalog/2060...lve-Spring.htm
Notice that both these springs are 1.25 dia. where the LT4 springs are 1.32 Dia. If you use the Z28 springs just make sure they clear the spring towers. I would much rather open the pockets up a bit for the bigger springs that shave the spring towers for the smaller springs to set down in the pockets. Not sure if one way is better or not, just my preference.
I think any of the three of those springs will suit you well.
I don't have any expereince with the Z28 springs in Vortec so I can't comment on em, but I did set up a set of 882's for my brother-in-laws suburban with the .490 max lift Z-28 springs and they seem to work fine.
Last edited by Dwaynes69BB; Apr 11, 2005 at 11:14 AM.
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 241
Likes: 0
From: Ravenna Ohio
Are the intake gaskets reusable. I took the vortecs off my bros engine and the intake gaskets are really solid like plastic with an embosed silicone bead. It had a edelbrock performer(vortec) manifold. Do i need to replace those gaskets? Also does anyone know what kind of CR increase there will be compared to my '80 heads.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 947
Likes: 0
From: I can explain it to you, but I can't comprehend it for ya.
Originally Posted by JDRez42
Are the intake gaskets reusable. I took the vortecs off my bros engine and the intake gaskets are really solid like plastic with an embosed silicone bead. It had a edelbrock performer(vortec) manifold. Do i need to replace those gaskets? Also does anyone know what kind of CR increase there will be compared to my '80 heads.
And, as far as the compression increase, the Vortecs are advertised as 64cc chambers. But at the machine shop I deal with they said everyone they've ever cc'd came out at 61-62 cc's. I'm not sure what heads you have now, but more than likely they are 76cc, so yes, you are gonna bump your compression a little, maybe a couple of points.
Last edited by Dwaynes69BB; Apr 13, 2005 at 08:41 AM.
Race Director
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 17,198
Likes: 0
From: Boone NC home of 3peat National Champs ASU Mountaineers
St. Jude Contributor
What size cam came on 79 L48? And would you suggest changing them when adding dart iron eagle heads 67ccs with a performer intake?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,456
Likes: 2
From: Coming home from Luckenbach Texas
The L48 cam should be changed along with ANY head swap. It barely pushes the valves open...
The L82 cam is pretty good (it's the same as the one in the 350/350 engine of the late '60s). It can be used with new heads, although some folks like the swap it out for a more "modern" grind.
The L82 cam is pretty good (it's the same as the one in the 350/350 engine of the late '60s). It can be used with new heads, although some folks like the swap it out for a more "modern" grind.