alignment question
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,476
Likes: 1
From: Mt Juliet TN
alignment question
My car is acting a bit weird since the last alignment. I handed the guy the page from Vette Brakes and told him to try and do the advanced street for manual steering. He was very nice (young too I don't think he's done too many Vettes). But the steering wheel won't return to center after a turn and I noticed yesterday the shims were all on one side on the upper a arm???
Advanced street from VBP I think is supposed to be this for the front
0 toe
1/4 neg camber
2 3/4 pos caster
my aligment from the shop says
left front right front
-0.4 camber -0.4
-1.2 caster -1.1
.27 toe .27
26.4 sai 14.0
I'm not really an aligment wiz I was hoping somone could tell me what this means and if something doesn't look right
Thanks in advance
Advanced street from VBP I think is supposed to be this for the front
0 toe
1/4 neg camber
2 3/4 pos caster
my aligment from the shop says
left front right front
-0.4 camber -0.4
-1.2 caster -1.1
.27 toe .27
26.4 sai 14.0
I'm not really an aligment wiz I was hoping somone could tell me what this means and if something doesn't look right
Thanks in advance
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 11,872
Likes: 12
From: Waterloo ontario Canada
I wonder about the .27 toe per side? It might be in degrees and that could explain it. You also don't have much caster? You say the shims are all at one end. At the back adds caster, near the rad takes away caster. I am suprised that you don't have more. With slightly modified stock cross shafts you can get 4 plus.
Caster is what makes the steering wheel recenter itself and adds high speed stability.
Caster is what makes the steering wheel recenter itself and adds high speed stability.
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 21,953
Likes: 1,445
From: Reno Nevada
2024 C3 of the Year Finalist- Modified
You got screwed from a moron. Take it back and explain that when you ask for alignment settings - That is what you want.
0 toe
1/4 neg camber
2 3/4 pos caster
The above are fair starting points. I run 0 toe and you should use -.4 they got that correct. I actually drive around with -0.6 camber. Caster you want as much as you can get I have 3.94 both sides.
For advanced driving you want 0 toe for quick steering and road feel. I have no idea what SAI stands for.
my aligment from the shop says
left front right front
-0.4 camber -0.4
-1.2 caster -1.1
.27 toe .27
26.4 sai 14.0
0 toe
1/4 neg camber
2 3/4 pos caster
The above are fair starting points. I run 0 toe and you should use -.4 they got that correct. I actually drive around with -0.6 camber. Caster you want as much as you can get I have 3.94 both sides.
For advanced driving you want 0 toe for quick steering and road feel. I have no idea what SAI stands for.
my aligment from the shop says
left front right front
-0.4 camber -0.4
-1.2 caster -1.1
.27 toe .27
26.4 sai 14.0
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,476
Likes: 1
From: Mt Juliet TN
It looks like the .27 toe is in degrees. Can you recomend a toe setting?
All the shims are up front near the radiator. Am I not reading that right or should the caster be positive or negative?
Sorry to ask a stupid question but is there somewhere that could explain what toe and caster mean. Is that something I can fix at home or do you need special tools?
All the shims are up front near the radiator. Am I not reading that right or should the caster be positive or negative?
Sorry to ask a stupid question but is there somewhere that could explain what toe and caster mean. Is that something I can fix at home or do you need special tools?
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,476
Likes: 1
From: Mt Juliet TN
Originally Posted by gkull
You got screwed from a moron. Take it back and explain that when you ask for alignment settings - That is what you want.
Is there any way I can do this myself?
Instructor
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 194
Likes: 0
From: Appleton Wi.
Yeah,
He screwed-up big time. The caster should be +. If the shims are mostly on the front bolt, that tells me he went -, not +. Weather degrees or inches, toe is toooooo much! If all the shims are on the front, and your caster is even like it is. than your front frame section seems to be pretty straight. You should be able to get plenty of + caster. My front is a bit tweeked, I can only get a max. of 1.5 caster. I'm in the process of slotting my a-arm shafts to achieve more.
Good luck.
TJ
He screwed-up big time. The caster should be +. If the shims are mostly on the front bolt, that tells me he went -, not +. Weather degrees or inches, toe is toooooo much! If all the shims are on the front, and your caster is even like it is. than your front frame section seems to be pretty straight. You should be able to get plenty of + caster. My front is a bit tweeked, I can only get a max. of 1.5 caster. I'm in the process of slotting my a-arm shafts to achieve more.
Good luck.
TJ
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 21,953
Likes: 1,445
From: Reno Nevada
2024 C3 of the Year Finalist- Modified
Many years ago i bought a book called how to make your car handle. I suggest you look up things on the internet or buy a suspension and handling book. Summit Racing has a few books you could buy.
C-3 Vette front alignment isn't that hard to do. I'm surprized that your local shops don't have a manual on all older chevys
C-3 Vette front alignment isn't that hard to do. I'm surprized that your local shops don't have a manual on all older chevys
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Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,476
Likes: 1
From: Mt Juliet TN
Originally Posted by gkull
Many years ago i bought a book called how to make your car handle. I suggest you look up things on the internet or buy a suspension and handling book. Summit Racing has a few books you could buy.
C-3 Vette front alignment isn't that hard to do. I'm surprized that your local shops don't have a manual on all older chevys
C-3 Vette front alignment isn't that hard to do. I'm surprized that your local shops don't have a manual on all older chevys
Race Director
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 11,360
Likes: 382
From: Plano TX
Yep... caster is screwed up. Needs to be atleast 2.5 positive. More is better. I'm running over 4 degrees but I have offset a-arms. Camber is good. Toe in is too much. Needs to be close to zero for street. Zero or slightly positive (toe out) for street/road course).
SAI = Steering axis inclination. It's the relationship between left and right front wheel in a turn. Inner wheel has to steer more. It is not adjustable so really just an FYI reading.
Edit: Not adjustable separately from other adjustments. It will change as you change caster/camber/toe.
SAI = Steering axis inclination. It's the relationship between left and right front wheel in a turn. Inner wheel has to steer more. It is not adjustable so really just an FYI reading.
Edit: Not adjustable separately from other adjustments. It will change as you change caster/camber/toe.
Race Director
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 16,100
Likes: 17
Finding good alignment shops is important. You must be near Nashville,certainly you can get references from some race guys...Gkull is right about taking it back but the problem is their lack of expertise...apparently...
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,476
Likes: 1
From: Mt Juliet TN
Originally Posted by rihwoods
Finding good alignment shops is important. You must be near Nashville,certainly you can get references from some race guys...Gkull is right about taking it back but the problem is their lack of expertise...apparently...
I'll bring it back and have them fix the toe and caster. I've already paid them they should do it for free.
Originally Posted by zwede
SAI = Steering axis inclination. It's the relationship between left and right front wheel in a turn. Inner wheel has to steer more. It is not adjustable so really just an FYI reading.
Last edited by TTop Tony; Jul 6, 2005 at 12:24 PM.
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 11,872
Likes: 12
From: Waterloo ontario Canada
They should do it for free. Putting all the shims in the front takes away caster and that is opposite to what you want. Look for most of the shims in the back towards the firewall.
This is the reason I do my own alignments.
This is the reason I do my own alignments.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,476
Likes: 1
From: Mt Juliet TN
Norval
Do you need special tools for that? Is there a cheaper home version of the tools. I'd liek to learn to do it myself if I could.
Should I take the shims out and move them to the back of the a arm toward teh firewall for now until I get time off work to have them look at it?
Do you need special tools for that? Is there a cheaper home version of the tools. I'd liek to learn to do it myself if I could.
Should I take the shims out and move them to the back of the a arm toward teh firewall for now until I get time off work to have them look at it?
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 11,872
Likes: 12
From: Waterloo ontario Canada
Originally Posted by TTop Tony
Norval
Do you need special tools for that? Is there a cheaper home version of the tools. I'd liek to learn to do it myself if I could.
Should I take the shims out and move them to the back of the a arm toward teh firewall for now until I get time off work to have them look at it?
Do you need special tools for that? Is there a cheaper home version of the tools. I'd liek to learn to do it myself if I could.
Should I take the shims out and move them to the back of the a arm toward teh firewall for now until I get time off work to have them look at it?
Moving the shims from the front to the back could void you warranty. If you take it back exactly as they set it you can argue that it wasn't set right. Move them and you loose your argument.
Leave it alone and take it back as soon as possible.
Again you want most or all of the shims in the back and as much positive caster as possible.
This is a caster camber gage, You do NOT need to remove the tire and brakes for setting the car, only the dust shield. I was doing something else here.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,476
Likes: 1
From: Mt Juliet TN
Good point Norval I'll leave the shims alone then. I might invest in the guages eventually they don't sound too awfull expensive.
WOW! Your using spherical rods instead of ball joints. Uh you made your own suspension didn't you. You guys really amaze me!
WOW! Your using spherical rods instead of ball joints. Uh you made your own suspension didn't you. You guys really amaze me!
Last edited by TTop Tony; Jul 6, 2005 at 04:52 PM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 2,010
Likes: 3
From: Moon Twp. PA USA
Took my own specs (VBP) to the alignment shop. If they do not have specs to input into the computer, it pops up stock specs for them to shoot for.
Mine took about 10 hour, over 2 days, to get right. We did not have 1/32" or 1/64" shims for the rear (I forget which), so I had to go get them before the alignment was completed.
I watched the tech do the alignment, so I guess he felt it had to be dead nuts on. They charged me $155 to do it. I am very friendly with the shop! Their flat rate is $60/hr.
BTW, I went back to the shop last Christmas time and gave the tech $20 and the manager a Cuban cigar. They love me! They lent me the hoist to change my engine this year. Money well spent!
Mine took about 10 hour, over 2 days, to get right. We did not have 1/32" or 1/64" shims for the rear (I forget which), so I had to go get them before the alignment was completed.
I watched the tech do the alignment, so I guess he felt it had to be dead nuts on. They charged me $155 to do it. I am very friendly with the shop! Their flat rate is $60/hr.
BTW, I went back to the shop last Christmas time and gave the tech $20 and the manager a Cuban cigar. They love me! They lent me the hoist to change my engine this year. Money well spent!