I started to align the front suspension last night. I never done this before and had no idea as to what exactly to expect. I put the same shims back in after removing the control arms. I did a quick adjustment on toe earlier. Things were pretty good to start with. Drivers side 0* camber, 2.5* caster. Passenger side was 1/2* Pos camber, 3* caster. I have downloaded and printed Vette Brakes and Products alignment specs.
About the only thing that is confusing me is the caster. I do not have the offset a-arms. They show 2.75* with standard arms and 4.75* with the offset. I was using the Advanced Street specs. My question is should I set the caster to 2.75* or should I set it for 4.75*. After swapping some shims on the drivers side the caster was 5* while camber was still 0*. So it looks like I should be able to obtain 4.75*.

 

The amount of caster you put into it is more a matter of overall driving "feel" and personal preference than anything else. The closer you get to "0" (or negative), the "lighter" the car will be on the steering. The more positive you go, the car will feel more stable and steady with slightly increased steering effort. If you have power steering, run as much positive caster as you can get out of it and still maintain camber in spec. If you have manual steering, you might want to run a little less caster to decrease steering effort at low speed.

 

How are you measuring caster and camber?? Toe is also hard to measure??
Getting 5 degrees caster without special cross shafts is very difficult and almost impossible by shims alone.

 

I have found that over the years the "cradle" collapses a little. This will prevent you from setting the caster to the desired specs. When we service a vehicle like that, we install "off-set" upper control arm shafts. These will get all the range back. Like Lars said, run at least 5 deg. caster if you can, this will let the steering self-center better.

http://www.ecklers.com/product.asp?p...K40HJ7RDKGDS57

 

I would have thought a collapsing cradle would affect camber, not caster?

This is a offset shaft for camber

 

Yes, it does, but when doing a complete alignment, the sagging craddle affects the total adjustment range that is available, thus reducing the amount of positive caster you can get while keeping camber in spec.

 

As with most of my parts I machine them myself. I found to get 5 degrees of caster you need to move the holes in the cross shafts 1/4 inch further forward. Without moving the holes about 2 3/4 are max using just shims and then camber becomes a problem.
I just figure out what I need, move the holes for caster and machine an offset for camber. Not a easy way of doing it but it works.

 

I still wonder how most people measure caster and toe. Toe is NOT just taking a tape measure and running across the tires. This doesn't work.

 

I use the alignment shop do mine, although inexpensive tools are available to let you do it yourself....They are magnetic and clamp to the hub....Road racing catalogs have them...j

 

big_G that is not the question. I wonder how the original poster did his measurements. I have all the magnetic/clamp on stuff in my shop. I just wonder how the guys do it that don't have this equipment.

 

I don't think alignment shops do that great a job. They worry about specs and as long as the wheel is within specs that is ok. But it is not ok, you must be within what specs you want but at the same time exactly the same side to side.
The guys doing the alignment are not always that knowledgable, ask them about bump and they give this blank look. You are paying a very minimal fee see they take as little time as possible.
Left wheel could be on the high side of specs and the right on the low side, both are within specs but vastly different.
I feel my home alignments are far more accurate.
A laser level also comes in extremely handy.
Strings are too time consuming, a proper toe gage is alot quicker and more accurate.
I also have large aluminum plates if I get really ambitious.
How does the average guy to his own home alignment????

You will notice in the caster/camber gage picture that bump is also addressed with both spacing the outer tie rod/rod end down and a longer custom tie rod sleeve with matching center link.

 

Norval:
For caster/camber I have the Longacre magnetic gauge. Similiar to the gauge you have. I roughed the toe with tape measure, will be doing a final toe after. I built a toe measuring device since then. Its a piece of steel conduit with two arms that come up. I mark my tires with two pieces of masking tape (one peice on the front sidewall and the other on the back sidewall) making them horizontally level from the center of the wheel. I push the car forward 180* (1/2 reveloution) and then measure the difference with calipers. The reason for pushing the car forward is because that's the way I drive it and it keeps the suspension loaded. By going 1/2 revolution, I am using the identical area or the tire and it eliminates any possible tire bulge that will cause erronous readings. I placed the car on a level surface by marking the garage floor and using floor tiles to fill in the low spot(s).

So bottom line sounds like a 1/2* neg camber and 4-5* pos caster (if I can get it).

 

I was responing to your question "How do most people measure caster and toe" sorry...I assumed he has the gear you have...

 

I give them the spec. to use, and demand a "Before and After" print-out ...

 

mandm1200 you are doing a good job I questioned your method and got a good answer. Your measurements will be right.
Stock cross shafts take only a few minutes to modify for anyone with a milling machines or TRW sells offset shafts but they I believe are for camber not caster.
If the holes are milled 1/4 inch further forward it gives 5 degrees positive caster.
Good job
bigG as for demanding anything you are lucky to get what you ask for.

 

Okay, so now I have to ask, is there a home-alignment howto anywhere? This is one of the few things I normally have a shop do as I have no clue how to do it. I need to do an alignment on our Camry and would rather pay the price for the tools and do it myself. Plus I'd love to check and better the alignment on my Corvette as well since I've had things apart since it was last aligned . . .

-dath

 

I haven't seen a "How To" anywhere.

Here is what I've been doing for some time:

The toe setting is a good start. It looks complicated, but after you do it a few times it's easy. I think most of this procedure came out of my '67 chassis service manual.


Tools Required:
Masking Tape, a Pencil, chalk, and a plumb bob with a short string.

Step one: Scribe a line around the circumference of each tire with the chalk. Alternately, Identify a locating part on your tire tread. that can be used to measure the center to centre spacing at the front and back of each tire. (I usually use the alternate)

Step 2: Place masking tape on the garage floor in front and back of each tire, near the directly below the front most and rear most points on each tire. The tape will be used to mark your meaurement points.

Step 3: Using the plumb bob and your locating marks or scribe lines, place the plumb bob string on the forward most portion of one tire (90 degrees from vertical) drop the plumb bob to the floor, and mark the spot on the tape below the tip of the plumb bob.

Step 4: Repeat step 3 at the rear of this tire.

Step 5 & 6 repeat the same process on the tire on the other side of the car.

Now measure your toe setting by:

7) measure the distance (across the width of the vehicle) between the marks you placed at the front of the tires.

8) Measure the distance between the marks you placed at the rear of the tires.

9) Subtract one distance from the other to determine your toe.
If the front distance is smaller than the rear distance, you are "toed in" if it is larger you are "toed out".

10) Adjust the toe by lengthening or shortening the tie rods with the threaded adjustments and re-measure. Make half of your adjustment on each side to keep the steering wheel centered. (I adjust mine in 1/4 turn increments)

Some of the racers I've worked with mark a single spot on each tire, and push the car straight ahead to do each measurement. This compensates for wheel and tire runout without scribing each tire and it loads the steering system in the direction of travel.


I'm still working on an "easy" procedure for camber.

Currently, I use a square and set my C-3 to 0 degrees by measuring between the square and the top and bottom edge of each rim. This requires a FLAT garage floor. Front camber is set by adding or subtracting an equal number of shims in the front and rear of each control arm. Adding shims makes the camber more negative.

Rear camber is adjusted with the cam bolts.

I do not yet have a procedure for caster. So far, I've been very succesfull without needing to adjust caster.

Note: Whenever you make a camber or caster adjustment it will affect the toe. The proper sequence is 1) Adjust camber, 2) adjust Caster, 3) adjust your toe setting.

 

I scanned this article from hotrod a while ago. Gives you the basics of hot to do this stuff at home

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthread.php?t=920831

 

http://www.vettenet.org/align.html

 

I also have large aluminum plates if I get really ambitious.
How does the average guy to his own home alignment????


I sort of feel that if all the alignment gear I see in any shop for decades now, clamps on the rims, THOSE are the places to measure for alignment, and so....I use a modded carpenters 2' level with screws in the side, spaced for my 17" rims....this gives me a reading as to how far out of vertical the rim is, if any, and there is a table I d/loaded to convert that to degrees for any given rim diameter...

caster the same way, but for caster I do bother to do the floor leveling and have the car up on the leveling pads, front greased for steering ease...

toe, now this is where I fail to see why anyone would disagree about my setup....I use a monofil fishing line from two jackstands per side....and since the rear of my c3 is wider stance per factory spec then the front, I put the rear wheels center cap 3/8 inch closer to the fishing line than the front...then I measure the rim/bead differances fron to rear on either the front or rear tire...with the car rolled onto the pads, and the whole thing easy enough to turn the wheels by grabbing the tire with car weight loaded, I feel the suspension is loaded the same as when I drove the damn thing onto the pads...same as a tire shop....
I set for damn near 1/8 inch toe in per side, maybe slightly less....

on the last set of front tires, they wore uniformly over the surface for over 2 years now.....so far as I"m concerned, it's case closed...

the car don't pull one bit, so I know caster, and cross caster is fine...
because of the what I consider quick handling, some guys feel I may be towed out, but tire wear don't say so....
I flip the carp level upside down to make sure the readings are accurate on that, taking any variation out of the level that way....

so where is any goof up???

GENE