I run coilovers on all 4 corners.
I also moved my lower mount but at one time I ran a stock lower mount and custom made top mounts which I sent to twin Turbo. I have pictures some where but I don't have time to look for them.
Got to wrap christmas presents

 

That was actually a picture of the stock lower A arm and stock bar and mounting.
This is a speedway bar and arms


This is the adapters I made to put rod ends on a stock bar.

 

Thanks Norval, I won't keep you from your Christmas duties! Some good ideas there.

 

bump steer........... shrump steer

again, along with the sloppy steering this is another wonderfull thing about driving our car. Learn how to anticipate and compensate for it while driving hard.

If driving a C3 was easy it wouldn't be as much fun. Much more exciting when driving hard that you are a heartbeat away from death or dismemberment.

 

No I want my car to be totally predictable. I want a total stranger to be able to get behind the wheel and drive it fast.
Trying to predict when it will duck out is impossible, reading the road is impossible when travelling at 100 plus.
Braking is a big part of loosing it, the only reason you are braking is because you are going too fast into something and at that point you better know how the car behaves.
The whole exercise with me is to get my car to handle the way new cars do. They do everything quietly, that is one thing I seem not to be getting any closer to but they handle very predictably. they seem so sure footed.
If and when I get everything worked out I might even loose interest. Who knows?

 

I really wish we could get you to Mosport or Mt. Tremblant. Enough hours on the track and you will learn how to master some of the C3 quirks.

 

Hi Norval,
Is that simply a piece of steel turned to size & then just welded on??? If so, would doing just that & then an alignment be worthwhile ie. it won't give perfect results, but it'd be a simple way of improving the current situation (the one thing that is annoying with mine is the need to constantly make slight steering corrections on bumpy roads)?

Turtle,
Isn't it a case of just getting to know the track? Certain roads I know well can be taken at "enthusiastic" speeds as I know every lump & bump on them. Similar roads, that I don't know, demand much more concentration as I don't know when fierce bumps are going to occur.
Merry Xmas
p.s. If these questions have been answered then apologies in advance! For some reason this darn PC has randomly stopped displaying all posts in threads.

 

Its getting to know YOUR car by driving it at the limit on a track for 20 minutes at a time. After you accumulate 10-20 hours of doing this you become a pretty good street driver. There is no way "enthusiastic" street driving will ever be able to come close to the experience that track time provides.

 

It is simply a piece of steel drilled, taped and welded to the steering arm but knowing the length is the hard part. I started with a stud and spacers and figured out what MY car wanted. I then measured the length of the spacers I used and cut a piece of steel to that length. I then drilled and taped the entire length of the spacer for 16 mm thread.
I then drilled the steering arm, bolt the spacer to the arm and welded it up carefully after filleting the top of the spacer for good weld penetration.
I then put a short bolt with locktight again in the steering arm effectively backing the weld up with a good 16 mm bolt.
I then used another 16mm bolt through the rod end . I again fine tuned the bump with small washers.
Adding 1 inch to any of our steering arms is a big step in the right direction.
While lowering the outer tie rod helps cut down on toe in when the suspension is raised it does nothing to toe out when the suspension is collapesed. To address this you need to lengthen the tie rods about 2 or 3 inches. Again the car will tell you what it wants if you use a bump steer gage.
If I was starting overing with another vet I would just measure between the front of the tires about at center height.
A tape measure hooked on a tread on one side and measure to a spot on the other tire. Jack the car up 3 inches and remeasure this same spot. You will see the car toe in. By slowly dropping the outer tie rod this toe change will disapear. Drop it low enough and you will have zero toe in.
This does NOT address toe out when compressing the suspension.
YOu need to change toe rod lengths to address compression.

 

I am not interested in mastering a C3's quirks. I want to eliminate them. A big part of working on the car is eliminating factory errors. It is a building exercise, something to keep me occupied, something to think about. If my car has a habit of dipping or diving into a particular spot I want to know why, eliminate it and go on to something else.
I am not interesting in thinking " Oh hell here comes pot hole. I better hang on, be ready to steer hard right when the wheel hits and then rapidly correct back left"" I want my suspension to absorbe road irregularies, steer where told regardless of braking conditions and let a total novice drive it fast and safely.
When the car stops presenting me with engineering challenges then i will probably stick to horse.

 

Norval when you say extend the tie rods do you mean the length at which they bolt into the centerlink? It just seems to me that changing anything else would change the toe specs thru the entire range.

 

good info

 

In the beginning I made up 4 sets of tie rod sleeves, each set 1 inch longer then the other set. I also needed 4 different center links to go with each set of tie rods.
I then one by one installed the sets, set toe and then using a bump gage started measuring and keeping records.
I would then replace both tie rod sleeves with a 1 inch longer set, move the inner tie rod in one inch on the drag link and retest.
A trend came out of this and on my 3rd set I found toe change both up and down was almost zero. To be thorough I had to test the last set and found I was moving away from the ideal length for me.
Remember guys I run a 1 1/2 inch longer spindle for a raised roll center and this affects everything else.
Dropping the outer tie rod changes toe IN on rise but doesn't improve toe out on compression. By changeing the tie rod length I am eliminating the toe OUT on compression. Dropping the outer tie rod corrects toe IN on rise.
Yes it is alot of work but gone is any twitchness over bumps and cresting hills.

 

Ah that clears up everything for me. My LAST question is what do you use for your centerlink? I have followed quite a few of your posts but dont recall seeing a picture of that. Thanks. Justin

 

While this is a poor picture if you save it and blow it up you can see the inner tie rod location I am using now and the stock hole.

 

So your using the same link but with a welded and drilled hole?

 

Yes. I bought the proper reamer for 7 degree taper, welded and piece on top of the drag link and drilled and reamed each hole 1 inch from the original.
The link you see has only the one stock hole and the one I am using.

 

Guys look at the cradle the car is sitting on. My son makes this craddle and 2 really strong rear jack stands , powder coats them charges only $100 for the set of 3. Very strong, supports the car rock steady and cheap. NO shipping but if you live close???

 

Norval - Where can get 5/8" ID spacers for my bumpsteer bolts? Now remember I don't have a machine shop in my garage, so don't suggest that.

 

I'm sorry because most of my specialty things are hand made. You are limited to washers. I have had a machine shop so long I think everyone has access to one. I have been custom building parts for 40 years and it become natural to think in terms of making anything you want.