Last Nov 2004 I put a crate ZZ4 in my 1980. It has the holley street avenger carb on it headers and true duals. It has the 3.08 rear gear. It did not take long until it tosted first gear in the TH350C trans. The TH350C did have a 2400 stall converter in it and a shift kit. At any rate the trans is not worth rebuilding.

I want to go to a 200-R4. My understanding is that one will fit in with out shortening the drive shaft. I would like to buy the transmission already built. I have several questions.

Who would you recommend for a transmission? Bowtie overdrives?

Will the 200-R4 give me a better launch with the 3.08 rear gear?

Should I go to a 3.55 or 3.73 rear gear?

What stall speed should I use with the ZZ4 and a 200-R4?

Is the stall recommendation different for a 3.08 gear and a 3.73 gear?

Can I use my stock shifter?

I am not looking to race the car. I want it to be fun to drive, with good acceleration so I do not get beat by every ricer. I also want to be able to run it down the interstate at 75 mph and get reasonable mpg and rpm. I do want it to be very streetable.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

 

I had a th350c in my 80 and went with a BowTie 700r4.Had to cut the driveshaft,modify the exhaust and shifter.The OD was sweet with my 3.70 gears on the highway,but the 3.06 first gear was worthless with my 500hp 406.No way to launch hard with that much power.Ended up toasting the 700r4 twice and now am going back to a th350 with a manual reverse valve body.The th400 would have been my first choice,but with all the mods to the exhaust and crossmember required to make it fit,the th350 was really my only option.

I strongly recommend you find a local shop to rework the th350 you have,or if you're dead set on an overdrive,have them build and install it.That way there is no way to dispute any warranty issues that may arise.

 

I've looked into this too and been told that a properly built TH350 will easily handle 500HP. I'm looking at buying one built by Jackson Performance out of Hendersonville NC. They ship free withing 700 miles of Hendersonville. 828-388-3696

 

200 4r and 3.55 oears are a real good combo.

 

I did the 200r4 swap this year and I absolutely think this is the best mod that you can do. I got a core for $25 and had a local shop do the rebuild and install came out to right under $1,600. This included a shift kit and Torque converter.
The 200r4 is a direct fit with no alterations to the drive shaft needed. Yes you can use your stock shifter but you will either need to file another detent in the plate or you can by the kit for $90 that comes with the new detent plates and an indicator lense that shows OD.
Your stock crossmember will also work but you will need to do alittle welding to make it right. I purchased the tube crossmember from Bowtie a direct bolt in that made the job look a whole lot cleaner.
Hope this gives you an idea which way to go. Remeber this if you should go with Bowtie and you have a problem they won't be right down the street like your local Trans shop will be.

Kona

 

Kona,

Where did you get your core?

 

Crash, do you know Corey Henderson? He has a shop in New Braunfels I think it's called Henderson Performance that's where I got mine. Also you can pick them up at any salvage yard you just gotta make sure it is the right bolt configuration.
Mine was a universal that would bolt in either Chevy,Pontiac or Olds. Think it has 10 mounting holes and one thing I remember for sure is that if the Bell housing has a crown or bump in the center of the top it will fit.
Sounds confusing let me know if I can help in anyway. The shop that did mine was Riverhills Automotive here in Kerrville 830-257-8727.

Stuart

 

I am pretty well set I want a four speed overdrive auto.

All the local trans shops have told me the TH350C is not worth rebuilding and if I want a TH350 I will have to get cases and all as the 350C is much weaker.

Local trans places also say the 200-R4 cant be built to handle any real power.

That is why I am looking at something like a bowtie overdrive or an Art Car.

How much stall should I be looking at for the converter? Does the stall depend on rear gear or more on engine RPM?

Maybe I will investigate some trans shops frather from home also.

 

your local trans places must be out to lunch or trying to make some more coin because a 200r4 can be built to be pretty strong. The stall is related to the torque of your motor.

 

You can buy a TH350 at AdvancedAuto for less than $600, no shipping , no waiting no BS.....

A local shop here in Orlando quoted me $500 for a bench job (I bring them my TH350 and they re-build it, then I get "my" TH350 back) ... better mark and stamp your parts so you can be sure you get your stuff back...

I would not go thru all the pain of making a different tranny fit unless it's a 5 speed manual with OD

 

Just ordered a TH 400 street/strip manual automatic with 2000 stall converter from Jackson Preformance for $ 900 shipping included. I`ll let you guys know how it works out. best price out there i found.

 

I purchease my 2004R from Bowtie Overdrives.
A level 3 unit with a 2800 stall unit. The first gear is 2.57 vs
the Turbo 400 2.48. So your launch should not be must different perhaps even a little better with 3.08. Your problem however will be with 4 gear. With a 3.08 your engine rpm will be way to low for normal highway speed. The engine will bog and chug. Will would def need at least a 3.73 or higher gear to enjoy the beneifits of the 4th gear which happens to be a .67 ratio. Do the math. The TV cable is a PITA. Their TV made easy system sounds cool but unless the geometry is perfect on your carb, you will run into problems with getting everything adjusted correctly. My recomendation is unless you want 4th gear and are willing to change your rear gear, stick with a TH350 or 400. I actually have a TH 400 with a transgo shift kit installed for sale. Good luck. TCI has great tranys and TC's. Good service as well.

 

Oh yea, the 2004R level 3 can handle 500+ hp. Your stall will depend on cam, rear gear and type of driving. You will want a lock-up converter. Watch your stall though, the unit I got from Bowtie, advertises as 2800 rpm stall but it is a reman unit from PDQ Converters and they advertise the same unit as 2600-3500 rpm. On the back of my 427 small block the stall is most likely 3000+ which is to much for my set up. When I dyno'd it in 3rd gear which is 1:1 I achieved about 355 hp at the wheels, when I locked the TC in third I achieved 390hp at the wheels!! so I was loosing some power to slip which means heat. I will be changing to another TC soon. TCI or ProTorque. These units run $550 plus. I also had to install a big a$$ trany cooler but even with that, I can not keep my pan temps at the Bowtie recomended pan temp of 150 deg F. This seems almost impossible with any kind of performance TC. The folks at Bowtie will be quick to blame any performance issues on elevated pan temps if you have them. Nice out for them.

 

The motor is a ZZ4 with a street avenger Holley carb. So I am figuring about 2400 to 2500 RPM should be a good stall range with a 200-R4 correct? That is right near the bottom of the torque curve.

Is a Art Carr built 200-R4 or a bowtie built 200-R4 better? I am looking at the level III Bowtie as it will allow for me to increase power of the ZZ4 in the future if I want to. How does a TCI built 200-R4 compair?

It is sounding like a 3.73 gear is about the best choice with this trans. It should give a solid launch but still allow for comfortable hwy curising at 70-75 mph.

Why is the TV cable so hard to set up? Is their a better alturnative to the Bowtie TV cable?

Again thanks for any help.

 

I have the Bowtie and it seems to handle my approx 500 flywheel hp without any probs. The Art Carr and TCI units are probable good units as well. I have heard good coments on both. Your stall range sounds good. Yes on the 3.73. If you pull the unit I could install the gears for you. The cable in not the problem, Bowtie has a cool system called "TV Made Easy" I allows you to adjust the trany shift feel without messing up the pull geometry. Their web site has lots of info about this. The problem is if the linkage setup is not perfect, the TV pull distance can restrict your thottle cable from moving its total distance in order to achieve WOT. Any cable system can have this problem. There are solutions available. I suggest you go to the Bowtie site and read every thing they have posted regarding the TV system and potential problems.

 

I had no problems setting up the TV detent cable on my 79 for a bowtieod 700r4, but it already had a detent cable, so it was really a matter of putting a new one in to match the 700r4, and adjusting it with the trans pan off. it was also easy because I am using an edelbrock carb, the linkage is set up for a detent cable anyway. I think part of the problem if using other carbs, is getting the linkage set up, so the detent cable has the right geometry to operate the cable properly. anyone else run a holley carb with their conversion???? to set the operation of the cable, all I did per bowtieod instructions, was hold the throttle wide open, and I adjusted the cable so the little barrel on the end was pushed all the way in. or is it all the way out?? It's been over 5 yrs and I haven't touched it since installation June,2000, so I don't remember right now. I also pumped the throttle a few times and rechecked my work, made one further adjustment, put the pan on and fluid in, been driving it ever since.
I have 3:55 gears in my 79, and get a good launch, I was told that if I really want a good launch to change to 3:73 gear. but with the 1st gear of a 700r4, I don't think that's a good idea, too much lost power between 1st and 2nd gear and with a 3:73 gear, I'm not going to be in first very long. However, a 200r4 has the same 1st gear as a th350, so i'd go with a 200r4 and 3:73. I turn about 2700rpm at 70mph, so I would estimate you'd do about 3000rpm at 70mph with a 200r4/3:73 set up. good luck

 

I thought the first in the 200-R4 was a little lower than in the th 350. Is that correct?

The OD is .67 in the 200 R4 correct? Would I still really be at almost 3000 rpm with a 3.73 rear gear and a locked converter?

I believe my 80 came with a detent cable. However I do not think when I swapped motors and carbs that the street avenger (holley) carb has the linkage for it. I guess I will have to look at that tonight if I get home before dark.

 

Ooops my mistake the first gear ratios are as follows:

400-2.48
350-2.52
2004R-2.74

At 80 mph with 28" dia rear wheels locked in .67 (4rth) and a 3.73 rear gear your RPM will be 2400.

 

i did the 700r4 with all the components except trans from BTO...i was happy with there products just wanted to have my trans be supplied by a local guy. i think the 3.30 range to 3.50 range would be perfect

 

Art Carr Transmissions. They've been building them for many years now and I believe were the first to develop the GM overdrive autos for aftermarket performance. I bought one (700-R4) rated for 700hp back in 1998 to put behind a big block (450hp - 500ft/lbs), and it has lasted until recently - even with my heavy right foot.