Painting Experiences - Kirker
06-17-2006, 05:03 PM
#1
Drifting
Thread Starter
Painting Experiences - Kirker
Hey guys,
Getting ready to paint my 82 Vette. I wanted to find out a little more information about Kirker Paint Systems. My dad just recently painted a Triumph Spitfire that he is in the process of restoring with one of their paints. I also used their paint in the past on a cheap daily driver I had. The colors they offer are very nice but the paint keeps coming out like S*it. Both cars were painted outside, and i know that doesn't help. The vette will of course be painted in a spray booth. The base coat seems to go on alright, but the problems occur when you lay on the clear. The worst imaginable over-spray issues, and when the clear begins to dry, it puts little pin holes all over! It looks awful!
For my dads Vette, we used PPG which came out really nice, no problems, and we sprayed it in the garage. Is it the quality of the paint or are we making a mistake somewhere. I would like to use Kirker because of the colors.
Dan
Getting ready to paint my 82 Vette. I wanted to find out a little more information about Kirker Paint Systems. My dad just recently painted a Triumph Spitfire that he is in the process of restoring with one of their paints. I also used their paint in the past on a cheap daily driver I had. The colors they offer are very nice but the paint keeps coming out like S*it. Both cars were painted outside, and i know that doesn't help. The vette will of course be painted in a spray booth. The base coat seems to go on alright, but the problems occur when you lay on the clear. The worst imaginable over-spray issues, and when the clear begins to dry, it puts little pin holes all over! It looks awful!
For my dads Vette, we used PPG which came out really nice, no problems, and we sprayed it in the garage. Is it the quality of the paint or are we making a mistake somewhere. I would like to use Kirker because of the colors.
Dan
06-18-2006, 02:04 PM
#5
Racer
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06-18-2006, 02:28 PM
#6
Drifting
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Originally Posted by Danspeed1
Hey guys,
Getting ready to paint my 82 Vette. I wanted to find out a little more information about Kirker Paint Systems. My dad just recently painted a Triumph Spitfire that he is in the process of restoring with one of their paints. I also used their paint in the past on a cheap daily driver I had. The colors they offer are very nice but the paint keeps coming out like S*it. Both cars were painted outside, and i know that doesn't help. The vette will of course be painted in a spray booth. The base coat seems to go on alright, but the problems occur when you lay on the clear. The worst imaginable over-spray issues, and when the clear begins to dry, it puts little pin holes all over! It looks awful!
For my dads Vette, we used PPG which came out really nice, no problems, and we sprayed it in the garage. Is it the quality of the paint or are we making a mistake somewhere. I would like to use Kirker because of the colors.
Dan
Getting ready to paint my 82 Vette. I wanted to find out a little more information about Kirker Paint Systems. My dad just recently painted a Triumph Spitfire that he is in the process of restoring with one of their paints. I also used their paint in the past on a cheap daily driver I had. The colors they offer are very nice but the paint keeps coming out like S*it. Both cars were painted outside, and i know that doesn't help. The vette will of course be painted in a spray booth. The base coat seems to go on alright, but the problems occur when you lay on the clear. The worst imaginable over-spray issues, and when the clear begins to dry, it puts little pin holes all over! It looks awful!
For my dads Vette, we used PPG which came out really nice, no problems, and we sprayed it in the garage. Is it the quality of the paint or are we making a mistake somewhere. I would like to use Kirker because of the colors.
Dan
The issue of excessive overspray could be attributed to excessive spray pressure.
The pinholes are typically caused by air bubbles in the paint. This too could be attributed to excessive spray pressure.
If anyone has any further insight PLEASE jump in here.
I presume you are using a conventional spray gun and not an HVLP (High Volume Low Pressure).
Chris B
06-18-2006, 09:37 PM
#7
Drifting
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by fl_rider
Here is a link to a good article about painting: http://www.vwtrendsweb.com/tech/0212...int_practices/
The issue of excessive overspray could be attributed to excessive spray pressure.
The pinholes are typically caused by air bubbles in the paint. This too could be attributed to excessive spray pressure.
If anyone has any further insight PLEASE jump in here.
I presume you are using a conventional spray gun and not an HVLP (High Volume Low Pressure).
Chris B
The issue of excessive overspray could be attributed to excessive spray pressure.
The pinholes are typically caused by air bubbles in the paint. This too could be attributed to excessive spray pressure.
If anyone has any further insight PLEASE jump in here.
I presume you are using a conventional spray gun and not an HVLP (High Volume Low Pressure).
Chris B
-We used a HVLP Gun-
The reason I would like to use Kirker is because their colors are really nice,.... The paint is affordable, and their factory where we bought the paint straight from is just 15 mintues from my house,... maybe 10 miles.
But lets not forget I am painting a Vette so its important that it looks good when it is done. I rather spend the $500 extra from PPG, Dupont, or House of Kolor, if nessary. If its all the same I want to go with Kirker.
Dan
Anyone else?
06-18-2006, 10:08 PM
#8
Melting Slicks
I rather spend the $500 extra from PPG, Dupont, or House of Kolor, if nessary. If its all the same I want to go with Kirker.
There is a reason your dad used PPG when painting his vette, I would defer to the old man and go with PPG and stick with what you know.
Good luck and post a lot of pictures when your done!
06-18-2006, 10:59 PM
#9
Drifting
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by LittleJake
Obviously if its all the same you wouldnt be here asking the questions. A lot of people have given you great advice and you keep bumping the thread. If you want someone to jump in and say "yeah go ahead and paint with Kirker its the best" I doubt you will find it. If money were not the issue and you would rather spend the extra $500 for the PPG or Dupont I would go ahead and do that and know you have a quality paint that apparently you have used in the past with great results.
There is a reason your dad used PPG when painting his vette, I would defer to the old man and go with PPG and stick with what you know.
Good luck and post a lot of pictures when your done!
There is a reason your dad used PPG when painting his vette, I would defer to the old man and go with PPG and stick with what you know.
Good luck and post a lot of pictures when your done!
Chances are I will go with PPG.... But I just recently found out about House of Kolor, and their truely awesome colors. If I knew nothing about the quality of House of Kolor should I have assumed that if their price was resonable that they were making inferior quality products????
Dan
Last edited by Danspeed1; 06-18-2006 at 11:02 PM.
06-18-2006, 11:46 PM
#10
Melting Slicks
I wasnt offended Dan, just came out wrong.
I would stick with what you know and what works, a paint job is a big expense and a big job to risk it with something that is a few dollars cheaper.
Really, good luck and please post a lot of pics!
***here is another bump for you
I would stick with what you know and what works, a paint job is a big expense and a big job to risk it with something that is a few dollars cheaper.
Really, good luck and please post a lot of pics!
***here is another bump for you
06-19-2006, 07:55 AM
#11
Le Mans Master
There are a lot of reasons why you can get overspray. Being an old school painter, that started out using regular spray guns, I can tell you that HVLP guns are a little different. One of the things I found is that you need to be closer to the surface you are spraying to get a good lay to the paint. The older guns would allow you to be farther away. Pressure is also key to good results. I usually spray lacquer at about 30 psi line pressure in my HVLP gun but go to 40-45 in my regular gun. You have to find your own sweet spot based on your gun and talent. And finally speed is very critical. With the older guns I used to be able to move a lot faster when spraying. With the HVLP gun I find that my movement is slower in order to lay down a reasonably smooth finish. As I said all of this is subjective and based on the paint, equipment and talent of the sprayer. I wouldn't say my talents are anywhere near that of a pro but I get decent results based on a lot of experience. Maybe the best thing for you to do is get some junkyard parts and experiment with different pressures, spraying speed and distance to the panel. I think you'll get the knack of it after a while. Good luck.
One more thing. Here is a site that specializes in paint and body. They're good people and give out a lot of help.
http://www.autobodystore.com/
One more thing. Here is a site that specializes in paint and body. They're good people and give out a lot of help.
http://www.autobodystore.com/
06-19-2006, 08:49 AM
#12
Instructor
I learned the hard way in painting my car that pinholes will form in the clear if you use catalyst that has been exposed to air for to long. I used PPG base/clear. The shelf life on the catalyst is 3 months once the top has been opened. I made the mistake of leaving the top off the can while I was spraying instead of sealing it immediatly after pouring it into the mixing can. My catalyst went bad in 3 weeks. I didn't notice the pinholes until I was wet sanding the clear and the finish was filled with micro air pockets.
06-19-2006, 07:13 PM
#13
Drifting
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by LittleJake
I would stick with what you know and what works, a paint job is a big expense and a big job to risk it with something that is a few dollars cheaper.
Really, good luck and please post a lot of pics!
***here is another bump for you
Really, good luck and please post a lot of pics!
***here is another bump for you
I will post lots of pics don't worry.... start to finish!
Dan
06-19-2006, 07:18 PM
#14
Drifting
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by vettfixr
There are a lot of reasons why you can get overspray. Being an old school painter, that started out using regular spray guns, I can tell you that HVLP guns are a little different. One of the things I found is that you need to be closer to the surface you are spraying to get a good lay to the paint. The older guns would allow you to be farther away. Pressure is also key to good results. I usually spray lacquer at about 30 psi line pressure in my HVLP gun but go to 40-45 in my regular gun. You have to find your own sweet spot based on your gun and talent. And finally speed is very critical. With the older guns I used to be able to move a lot faster when spraying. With the HVLP gun I find that my movement is slower in order to lay down a reasonably smooth finish. As I said all of this is subjective and based on the paint, equipment and talent of the sprayer. I wouldn't say my talents are anywhere near that of a pro but I get decent results based on a lot of experience. Maybe the best thing for you to do is get some junkyard parts and experiment with different pressures, spraying speed and distance to the panel. I think you'll get the knack of it after a while. Good luck.
One more thing. Here is a site that specializes in paint and body. They're good people and give out a lot of help.
http://www.autobodystore.com/
One more thing. Here is a site that specializes in paint and body. They're good people and give out a lot of help.
http://www.autobodystore.com/
Thanks for the help guys,
Dan
06-19-2006, 09:06 PM
#15
Melting Slicks
Make sure that your HVLP gun has an orifice size of 1.3 or 1.4 maximum. Make sure that you have the right speed activator and reducer for the temperature conditions on the day you are spraying. With the overspray and pinholes it sounds like the clear is being applied to dry and not getting a chance to flow smooth. You may have too fast of an activator for a large job. The slower the activator the better chance of getting a smooth and glossy finish. Many of the modern clears need to be sprayed wet and smooth because they flash off very quickly. As was mentioned above you may need to hold the gun closer, move slower and watch the spray pattern contact the panel. You want to move as fast as needed to keep a wet edge. Good Luck, Craig
06-19-2006, 11:10 PM
#16
Burning Brakes
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There is a reason kirker is cheap. It's not that great. The guy I work with painted a truck for a friend with kirker. He used slow hardener and reducer and he couldn't get around the vehicle without getting overspray. It dries way too fast. If you are wanting a factory color, I would go with ppg. House of kolor is very high quality but they only make costom colors. If you are wanting to use their kandy, practice your spray technique before using it. Spray pattern overlap consistency is very important because you can get light and dark spots. If you get the kandy uneven, the only way to fix it is to start over. Nothing has the effect like a kandy when it's sprayed correctly. The bubbles in your clear is called solvent pop. It occurs when the top layer of paint flashes off before the solvents evaporate from the paint underneath. If you use too fast of a reducer or hardener and put it on too heavy, you'll get solvent pop. Cheaper paints are generally thinner, don't cover as well, and don't reduce as far as better paints, so you will have to buy more paint. PPG products go farther. They are high pigment paints and they cover better. Concept single stage mixes 4:1:2. DBC basecoat mixes 1:1. DCU2002 clear mixes 4:1:1. Concept and 2002 clear are high solids. You will get a better build because they have more "body". HOK clear is a high solid too. PPG and HOK are very durable. A lot of people brag about dupont being so great. We sell this stuff and everyone complains about how easy it chips. Chromabase does not have very much pigment so it doesn't cover very well. Stick with a good paint and you'll have better results.
06-20-2006, 09:41 PM
#17
Melting Slicks
[QUOTE=bondoboy A lot of people brag about dupont being so great. We sell this stuff and everyone complains about how easy it chips. Chromabase does not have very much pigment so it doesn't cover very well. Stick with a good paint and you'll have better results.[/QUOTE]
Bondoboy, If you are getting complaints about chipping with Dupont you should try to figure out what they are doing wrong. Are they activating the basecoat? Dupont's products are as good as any out there and are very easy to use and although the formulas don't use as much tint, the tints are high strength and the paints do cover well. They put a lifetime warranty on approved systems and they do hold up very well. I don't want to start a paint war but I have been using and selling Dupont for 23 years and I and my customers believe strongly in their products. Craig
Bondoboy, If you are getting complaints about chipping with Dupont you should try to figure out what they are doing wrong. Are they activating the basecoat? Dupont's products are as good as any out there and are very easy to use and although the formulas don't use as much tint, the tints are high strength and the paints do cover well. They put a lifetime warranty on approved systems and they do hold up very well. I don't want to start a paint war but I have been using and selling Dupont for 23 years and I and my customers believe strongly in their products. Craig
06-20-2006, 10:40 PM
#18
Drifting
Thread Starter
PPG It is. Seems like the "solvent Pop" post is right on target. I will be spraying in a booth, but I will be spraying. I need what will look best and is the easiest to apply. I will go to the local paint store near me that carries PPG Paints and inquire about what I need and how to best lay it on.
If you guys would like to post techniques, tricks, or tips,... go ahead,... anything help you can give is greatly appreciated.
I decided against the metallics.
Its an 82 Vette, I would like to paint it mostly black, and add some red highlights and stripes in certain areas (same red as the original 82 Vette). I will probably be painting in about 70-80*F temperatures, in a spray booth, or worst case, a clean, well lit garage. I will use my dads new HVLP gun. The car is pretty straight with the exception of a few cracks in the fiberglass.
What will I need to buy to lay down a nice paint job,....
(like slow activator, or medium for example)
Dan
If you guys would like to post techniques, tricks, or tips,... go ahead,... anything help you can give is greatly appreciated.
I decided against the metallics.
Its an 82 Vette, I would like to paint it mostly black, and add some red highlights and stripes in certain areas (same red as the original 82 Vette). I will probably be painting in about 70-80*F temperatures, in a spray booth, or worst case, a clean, well lit garage. I will use my dads new HVLP gun. The car is pretty straight with the exception of a few cracks in the fiberglass.
What will I need to buy to lay down a nice paint job,....
(like slow activator, or medium for example)
Dan
