New engine project (pics)
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,716
Likes: 4
From: New Baden Illinois
New engine project (pics)
Here is the new project engine. It has 10.25 factory CR and has the 041(x) heads. I am still not sure what cam to put in it. gkull recommended the 272H Crane Powermax cam, which sounds like a good cam. Does anyone else have any other suggestions? I have the stock torque converter, will run either an Edelbrock Performer or Weiand Stealth intake.
Last edited by dgruenke; Jul 30, 2006 at 05:22 PM.
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,806
Likes: 3
From: Burlington WI
As long as you have it apart that far...
Measure the cylinders in both directions (front to rear and top to bottom) for Out of Round.
They start out round but become elliptical with wear.
That little ridge at the top is an indication of wear.
Smooth is one thing...
Within spec is another...
It would be a shame to put it all together and have a smoker when you are all done.
Chris B
They start out round but become elliptical with wear.
That little ridge at the top is an indication of wear.
Smooth is one thing...
Within spec is another...
It would be a shame to put it all together and have a smoker when you are all done.
Chris B
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,716
Likes: 4
From: New Baden Illinois
Originally Posted by fl_rider
Measure the cylinders in both directions (front to rear and top to bottom) for Out of Round.
They start out round but become elliptical with wear.
That little ridge at the top is an indication of wear.
Smooth is one thing...
Within spec is another...
It would be a shame to put it all together and have a smoker when you are all done.
Chris B
They start out round but become elliptical with wear.
That little ridge at the top is an indication of wear.
Smooth is one thing...
Within spec is another...
It would be a shame to put it all together and have a smoker when you are all done.
Chris B
Doug
Last edited by dgruenke; Jul 30, 2006 at 07:04 PM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,428
Likes: 5
From: Japan
You can use a 'snap gage' and micrometer`(they're also called telescoping hole gages) which are kind of difficult to use or do what machine shops do and use a dial bore gage. You can probably afford to buy your own (Chinese-grrrr....) snap gages and 4"-5" micrometer but dial bore gages are pricey (and more accurate and repeatable) so you'd probably have to borrow one from a machine shop or better yet drag that motor over to one and have them measure the bores for you. Just from looking at your pics I'd say that at the very least that motor needs to come apart , have the block hot tanked and cam bearings changed, ridges reamed, holes lightly honed, pistons thoroughly cleaned and crank cleaned and polished....don't wanna bust yer bubble but something in my gut tells me you're asking for trouble if you just bolt a hot cam and intake into it and go....
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,806
Likes: 3
From: Burlington WI
Any reputable machine shop can measure the bores and tell you what the situation is. While they are in there they can measure all the other necessarry dimensions and clean the block. New freeze plugs are in order as well.
You have to remember.... A used engine is just that. It wasnt sitting on the floor because it was in the best of shape. It doesnt matter if it has 30:1 compression, that doesnt mean anything if it is worn out.
With a ridge in the cylinder it can sometimes be interesting getting the pistons out. Dont ask me how I know.....
This is the heart of your machine, now is NOT the time to cheap out on it. It will just cost you a lot more money and a lot of frustration.
Chris B
You have to remember.... A used engine is just that. It wasnt sitting on the floor because it was in the best of shape. It doesnt matter if it has 30:1 compression, that doesnt mean anything if it is worn out.
With a ridge in the cylinder it can sometimes be interesting getting the pistons out. Dont ask me how I know.....
This is the heart of your machine, now is NOT the time to cheap out on it. It will just cost you a lot more money and a lot of frustration.
Chris B
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,716
Likes: 4
From: New Baden Illinois
fl_rider: I understand what you're saying. I think the block is going to have to go the machine shop for a cleaning and new freeze plugs at a minimum.
I just don't want to have to bore it. I would really like to keep the stock bore and the factory pistons.
The engine has actually been sitting for over 20 years because the Camaro SS that it came out of was completely smashed in the rear end. The owner has kept it this long because he was going to try to build an SS clone, but finally decided to get rid of it. The original car only had 44,000 miles on it when it went to the crusher.
I just don't want to have to bore it. I would really like to keep the stock bore and the factory pistons.
The engine has actually been sitting for over 20 years because the Camaro SS that it came out of was completely smashed in the rear end. The owner has kept it this long because he was going to try to build an SS clone, but finally decided to get rid of it. The original car only had 44,000 miles on it when it went to the crusher.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 5,269
Likes: 54
From: Orlando Florida
St. Jude Donor '05
Take the block to a shop so they can measure the bores. Snap gages and OD micrometers will work but a good machine shop likely has inside micrometers. The best tool is a three point inside micrometer, but this can only be used on round holes.
"in a perfect world" you would use a inside micrometer to measure ovality and if the bore is round you'd use a three point mic to measure bore taper
I recently bought snap gages and outside micrometers on Ebay, the chinese stuff.... you have to be patient with these things, repeatability is a problem...
"in a perfect world" you would use a inside micrometer to measure ovality and if the bore is round you'd use a three point mic to measure bore taper
I recently bought snap gages and outside micrometers on Ebay, the chinese stuff.... you have to be patient with these things, repeatability is a problem...
Corvette Stories
The Best of Corvette for Corvette Enthusiasts
Top 10 Most Expensive Corvettes Ever Sold on Bring A Trailer
Brett Foote
10 Things Every Corvette Owner Needs (2026 Edition)
Michael S. Palmer
8 Most "Only Corvette Owners Understand" Quirks and Problems
Pouria Savadkouei
10 Reasons the C6 Z06 is Still A Performance Benchmark After 20 Years
Joe Kucinski
How Much Horsepower Every Corvette Engine "LOST" in 1972
Joe Kucinski
Top 10 DOs and DON'Ts for Protecting Your Convertible Top!
Michael S. Palmer
Top 10 Most Explosive Corvettes Ever Made: Power-to-Weight Ratio Ranked!
Joe Kucinski
150 hp to 1,250 hp: Every Corvette Generation Compared by the Specs That Matter
Joe Kucinski
8 Coolest Corvette Pace Cars (and Replicas) of All Time
Verdad Gallardo
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,716
Likes: 4
From: New Baden Illinois
I was calling around to some machine shops to get some estimates and one of the machine shops mentioned that the valve guides may be bad also because of how old the engine is. Has anyone had any experience with the valve guides going bad or how to tell if they are bad?
Advanced
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 76
Likes: 0
From: St Louis MO
As others have already stated, now is not the time to be frugal. You have a great base engine there, invest a little $$$ now and enjoy it for a long time.
Have the machine shope measure the bores and make suggestions, replace the freeze plugs and CAM BEARINGS if you are putting in a new cam. After they measure the bores, if they are out of round, they can bore it, .010, .020 or .030 over. If you do bore it oversize, replacement pistons are not that expensive.
The cylinder heads: New valve seals at the minimum, possibly guides and regrinding the valves. These have been sitting for 20 years, again you do not want a smoker after it is put back together. Also, if you are considering a new camshaft, replace the valve springs with a heavy duty spring appropriate for the cam being installed. The camshaft vendor can recommend the proper springs.
I just did the same over the winter, machine shop bill was about $500.00, well woth it. Bored .030 over, new pistons, cam bearings, valve seals and springs. Engine fired up first try and has been running very well. Pistton rings seated quickly, no smoke at any time, virtually no oil consumtion.
Good luck, look forward to a future post when the project is completed.
Have the machine shope measure the bores and make suggestions, replace the freeze plugs and CAM BEARINGS if you are putting in a new cam. After they measure the bores, if they are out of round, they can bore it, .010, .020 or .030 over. If you do bore it oversize, replacement pistons are not that expensive.
The cylinder heads: New valve seals at the minimum, possibly guides and regrinding the valves. These have been sitting for 20 years, again you do not want a smoker after it is put back together. Also, if you are considering a new camshaft, replace the valve springs with a heavy duty spring appropriate for the cam being installed. The camshaft vendor can recommend the proper springs.
I just did the same over the winter, machine shop bill was about $500.00, well woth it. Bored .030 over, new pistons, cam bearings, valve seals and springs. Engine fired up first try and has been running very well. Pistton rings seated quickly, no smoke at any time, virtually no oil consumtion.
Good luck, look forward to a future post when the project is completed.
Advanced
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 76
Likes: 0
From: St Louis MO
As others have already stated, now is not the time to be frugal. You have a great base engine there, invest a little $$$ now and enjoy it for a long time.
Have the machine shop measure the bores and make suggestions, replace the freeze plugs and CAM BEARINGS if you are putting in a new cam. After they measure the bores, if they are out of round, they can bore it, .010, .020 or .030 over. If you do bore it oversize, replacement pistons are not that expensive.
The cylinder heads: New valve seals at the minimum, possibly guides and regrinding the valves. These have been sitting for 20 years, again you do not want a smoker after it is put back together. Also, if you are considering a new camshaft, replace the valve springs with a heavy duty spring appropriate for the cam being installed. The camshaft vendor can recommend the proper springs.
I just did the same over the winter, machine shop bill was about $500.00, well woth it. Bored .030 over, new pistons, cam bearings, valve seals and springs. Engine fired up first try and has been running very well. Piston rings seated quickly, no smoke at any time, virtually no oil consumtion.
Good luck, look forward to a future post when the project is completed.
Have the machine shop measure the bores and make suggestions, replace the freeze plugs and CAM BEARINGS if you are putting in a new cam. After they measure the bores, if they are out of round, they can bore it, .010, .020 or .030 over. If you do bore it oversize, replacement pistons are not that expensive.
The cylinder heads: New valve seals at the minimum, possibly guides and regrinding the valves. These have been sitting for 20 years, again you do not want a smoker after it is put back together. Also, if you are considering a new camshaft, replace the valve springs with a heavy duty spring appropriate for the cam being installed. The camshaft vendor can recommend the proper springs.
I just did the same over the winter, machine shop bill was about $500.00, well woth it. Bored .030 over, new pistons, cam bearings, valve seals and springs. Engine fired up first try and has been running very well. Piston rings seated quickly, no smoke at any time, virtually no oil consumtion.
Good luck, look forward to a future post when the project is completed.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,716
Likes: 4
From: New Baden Illinois
knbwag73: $500.00 doesn't sound too terribly bad. Here are the price estimates that I got from one machine shop:
Bore block: $180
Clean block and replace plugs and cam bearings: $100
Turn the crank: $155
Balance: $220
Basic valve job: $150
Replace valve guides $180
Resurface heads: $60
Recondition the rods: $116
None of these amounts include any material. It is all for labor. Are these estimates in the ballpark are do they sound high? Also, how can I determine if I need all of the work?
Bore block: $180
Clean block and replace plugs and cam bearings: $100
Turn the crank: $155
Balance: $220
Basic valve job: $150
Replace valve guides $180
Resurface heads: $60
Recondition the rods: $116
None of these amounts include any material. It is all for labor. Are these estimates in the ballpark are do they sound high? Also, how can I determine if I need all of the work?
Advanced
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 76
Likes: 0
From: St Louis MO
Those prices sound consistent. My machinist cleaned the block free of charge since he was boring it and installing cam bearings.
Also, I installed a complete crank kit, no machine shop charges for crank, rods etc.
Also, I installed a complete crank kit, no machine shop charges for crank, rods etc.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,716
Likes: 4
From: New Baden Illinois
Apparently Eagle makes a complete kit for the 355 with the cast crank, new rods, Keith Black hyper pistons, etc. However, it makes 10.2:1 CR with the 64cc head. How accurate is this rating. Is it like GM's rating where it is about 1/2 point higher than actual or is this pretty close to the actual rating?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 5,269
Likes: 54
From: Orlando Florida
St. Jude Donor '05
Originally Posted by dgruenke
knbwag73: $500.00 doesn't sound too terribly bad. Here are the price estimates that I got from one machine shop:
Bore block: $180
Clean block and replace plugs and cam bearings: $100
Turn the crank: $155
Balance: $220
Basic valve job: $150
Replace valve guides $180
Resurface heads: $60
Recondition the rods: $116
None of these amounts include any material. It is all for labor. Are these estimates in the ballpark are do they sound high? Also, how can I determine if I need all of the work?
Bore block: $180
Clean block and replace plugs and cam bearings: $100
Turn the crank: $155
Balance: $220
Basic valve job: $150
Replace valve guides $180
Resurface heads: $60
Recondition the rods: $116
None of these amounts include any material. It is all for labor. Are these estimates in the ballpark are do they sound high? Also, how can I determine if I need all of the work?
Turn the crank: $155
Balance: $220
Recondition the rods: $116
That's $491, not a whole less than a rotating assembly with crank, pistons, rods and rings.... (PAW for example)
$280 on the block.... not including align bore and decking.... keep in mind that a brandnew block is only $650-$700 (Summit/Jegs)
Be patient and compare prices before you start the project...
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,716
Likes: 4
From: New Baden Illinois
Originally Posted by RedBad1979
Turn the crank: $155
Balance: $220
Recondition the rods: $116
That's $491, not a whole less than a rotating assembly with crank, pistons, rods and rings.... (PAW for example)
$280 on the block.... not including align bore and decking.... keep in mind that a brandnew block is only $650-$700 (Summit/Jegs)
Be patient and compare prices before you start the project...
Balance: $220
Recondition the rods: $116
That's $491, not a whole less than a rotating assembly with crank, pistons, rods and rings.... (PAW for example)
$280 on the block.... not including align bore and decking.... keep in mind that a brandnew block is only $650-$700 (Summit/Jegs)
Be patient and compare prices before you start the project...
The block, on the other had, I will probably just clean, bore it, and replace the plugs and cam bearings. I don't want it decked because I want to keep the numbers on the pad.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 5,269
Likes: 54
From: Orlando Florida
St. Jude Donor '05
Originally Posted by dgruenke
That's kind of what I'm thinking regarding the rotating assembly. A performance shop sells (on ebay) the complete Eagle rotating assembly (already balanced) with the rings, bearing, the works, for about $675.00 to my door. The only thing that concerns me is that Eagle claims 10.2:1 with the 64cc heads.
The block, on the other had, I will probably just clean, bore it, and replace the plugs and cam bearings. I don't want it decked because I want to keep the numbers on the pad.
The block, on the other had, I will probably just clean, bore it, and replace the plugs and cam bearings. I don't want it decked because I want to keep the numbers on the pad.
If you get a new block you could get the one with a 1-piece rear seal and a hydr. roller cam (no retrofit)..... just a thought....
I'm likely going that route - new block, new 383 rotating ***. (would be 377ci without overbore) and store the original engine
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 5,269
Likes: 54
From: Orlando Florida
St. Jude Donor '05
Originally Posted by dgruenke
The heads that I would be running are 64cc heads. They are casting number 041(x). Those heads are one of the things that was so appealing to me about this engine.