Can someone who previously had power steering compare the feel from going from power steering to rack & pinion?
Debating whether to go with the jeep box which looks like it would give you the feel of power steering minus the slave cylinder or with a rack&pinion setup like steeroids.

 

The steeroids R&P setup is power assisted, as is the stock and jeep box setups.

I went from the power assisted stock setup to the power assisted R&P setup. As you can tell by the post though, I'm probably not the best guy to answer this, yet.

 

Norval, I kow the recirc. ball boxes will single sidedly load the frame, I welded up that big hole and the complete area there us gusseted and supported by the roll cage structure. I don't have any steering components loading into that area anymore.

With the steeroids the flex was in the brackets and rubber grommets, not the frame. I couldn't take a vid, the steering column is out for some repairs and I have the drivers side bracket off so I will fabricate a new one that's beefier and has a new angle to get the rack installed perpendicular to the car axis. I have some shots that show how much it's off..need to pull them from my camera. When I have the steering column back in I could install it with the old bracket first to shoot a vid of the flexing, it's clearly visible that the frame does not flex yet the input shaft of the rack (which has a nice brownish orange colored seal in it so it's very easy to spot it moving.

I did measure the stock bracket, it's right at around 4mm with the powdercoating on it so it's probably indeed around 3.4 mm thick. I still feel that is really flimsy. A frame baem may be a similar thickness but it's somewhat boxed and loads are spread over a wider area, this is a single steel plate with minimal gusseting or brakes in it for strength, I really feel the brackets could and should be improved upon.

I think we'll do a jeep box on the other (69) vette, that should be a good comparison between the 2.

Oh and another thing, not only was the rack not perpendicular, it's also not level.

I'm not trying to put down the steeroids kit, just trying to give some constructive feedback. Even if the rack's positional issues are due to GM tolerances I still feel the brackets could be improved upon and also those hoses would be a hell of a lot easier to install if the crimped ends had SWIVEL fittings, they don't now and this makes install a PITA as you have to twist and fight the (rigid) hose and at the same time screw on the nut....very frustrating. It doesn't have to have 2 swivel fittings, one side would do..that would give you the ability to clock the hoses.

 

I can't comment on the Steeriods system, but I did my own conversion using the grand am rack same as steeriods and holy crap it is bad to the bone. I have never had so much confidence in high speed turns. I have zero play, if I sneeze the front wheels react. I think you need to check all nuts and bolts and make sure everything is tight. If everything is then it may be a bad rack, more than likely all of these on the market are remans. If you search the forum I documented my conversion, it's pretty cool and easy.

Chris

 

Jeez, TT, the way you and others go after Steeroids brackets/mounts...and they made of 1/8 inch steel....with all that amount of support, I would think MY silly little 1" square 1/8 thick supports even though triangulated less than theirs would be should flex even more.....but I have crawled under the car with engine on, and off, wife twisting wheel till tires moved, i'ts NOT my bracket, but the frame twisting, the bracket movement is resulting from frame twist....I can see that clearly...
course my rack is mounted slightly differant then the kit, I collapsed the column and did 2 universals so it's not an issue with any adjustments...
I guess what I am saying is with fat rubber on a garage floor the amount of frame flex is astounding....but there are no cracks..yet...and so I have to assume it's normal....having said that, I think that rubber doughnut on the drivers side is essential to be in good condition or slop will be stupid....

 

whatever..if it wasn't flexing I wouldn't be posting about it. it's not like I'm making this stuff up. The kit is brand spanking new, there are 0 miles on it.

I certainly hope you believe me when I say it's the brackets, not the frame..I think I can tell the difference.

I'm very **** when it comes to steering stuff, you should have seen the lengths I went through in building my front steering rack setup, I changed it more than once and that was because of rigid mounting and eliminating any possible flex.

It just has to sit dead perpendicular and dead level and turn like butter, otherwise something's wrong.

There's no reason why a properly setup box will not perform the same as a rack, the major drawback is one sided frame loading but some bracing can help there.
The benefit to a rack is mostly the small package because it's usually tucked inder or in front of a crossmember and it then wastes very little room and it more evenly loads the frame.

The biggest problem with the stock setup is not so much the box itself, it can be built very tiht..the biggest issue is the remote steering valve and the inherent slop because of it.

 

Here's the pic:

 

Gene don't ever crawl under a car with the motor running and the wife behind the wheel

Honest officer I didn't know he was under there when I took the car to the store

 

Marck the rack certainly looks crooked and do you really want that thing hanging down under there???

 

I agree with Marck, The Steeroids brackets are too flimsy for me. It's probably fine for crusing around town.

I race this car and abuse it. No way would I feel comfortable with the steeroids bracket. Any hint of flex or strength is unacceptable to me.

When I made my brackets I used 1/4 inch plate with a 1" stiffener rib on the back a 1" square tube with 1/8" wall for the mount and a large stiffener bracket on the front. The passenger side is made from 2 pieces of 1" square tubing as is the center bracket. But the passenger side just goes allong for the ride, no side to side loads there.


Gene,
I see no frame or bracket flex when turning the wheel back and forth stopped. I can't believe my old salt eaten Minnesota car could have a better frame than your Florida car.

 

Not my car, a buddies. He also has a 69, I think we'll do the jeep box on that one (the bolt in kind, I don't think we want to weld on the frame like you did)

BTW, measured the brackets with a caliper, they are 3.4mm thick WITH the powdercoating on them.

 

So what's stronger - the powdercoating or the metal ??

 

heck if I know

 

A good vender would offer to ship you another rack. Not provide bullsheit comments like don't turn the wheel unless the car is moving.


The setup is a piece of crap.

an expensive piece of crap.

 

I just checked my Steeroids rack, I've got about 5% degrees of play, however we reinforced the center plate. The rack does hang low, again my engine has been lowered 4", with a dry sump, the rack and bellhouseing have the same clearance hieght. I replaced all of the hoses that Steeroids sent due to engine repositioning. The Steeroids rack itself is GM with a few upgraded/heavier duty parts. Also no issues with alignment and ease of installation. I have virtually no frame flex with a tubular frame built around the stock frame and steel mounts and bushings.
I am happy with performance of the Steeroids system but I went from manual/no power to a power rack, how could it not be an improvement.
I'll stay with Steeroids but am very interested in the performance of the Jeep box and would switch if it is a substantial improvement. I assume I would still need an external pump? Does anyone have experience with both systems?

 

Gene,
I see no frame or bracket flex when turning the wheel back and forth stopped. I can't believe my old salt eaten Minnesota car could have a better frame than your Florida car.[/QUOTE]


I need put in one of those a arm to arm cross supports/stiffeners...have one, just not the time, have to move the p/s reservoir beccause I have serp drive off an '88 style vette....

I getting ready to do the heads and some other things, like remove radiator and support and fab up my own support and fan shroud from aluminum, and move that reservoir at same time....major enuff project coming up this fall....
my car spent the first 25 years of life in the Maryland region near DC....but it was an old show car, so not so much road use, just garage corrosion...nothing major though...
I know my frame flex is no worse with this setup than the stock one, so I"m not worried or anything, just that I know i'ts not from my brackets....
After looking at what I think are some brackets by steeroids or someone else, I THINK I see where/why the flex is in those brackets...mine is triangulated directly from the bottom of the mounting bolt holding the rack clamp, and going to frame outside horizontal section directly...about 4" long 1/8 thick, not moving anywhere, just not....

 

Nah, Linda woldn't hurt a fly, she even rescues baby possums for the shelter (who turns them into cat food, I"m sure)....shhhhh don't let her know that.....

 

That looks horrible. Has the car ever been hit? Frame has got to be bent.

 

No, the car has never been wrecked, it's straight. Even the frame horns are perfectly straight, it's not uncommon to see some bent ones from hitting the frame extension on a curb. Even the tow hook and lower air dam brace are still in place and straight.

There's about a centimeter of tolerance between the left and right suspension corners, I measured it on both sides. That's the factory at work there but there's 4!! cm of difference between the L&R rubber mounts at the mounting bracket locations.
You can see that the tie rod is much closer to the lower control arm on the drivers side, it's also rubbing there

Horizontally it's also not sitting level, it's lower on the drivers side, that's the side I'm going to redo.

 

4 cm??? no way man, that frame gotta be bent, something let go somewhere, somehow....that's one HELL of a lot, near 1.5 inches or better....not possible, someone been drinking, sure it not YOU???

seriously, I cna't see how it could have left the factory that way....car would have to be all OVER the road...tire wear alone would be stupid....