Since the shop can't get my car into spec because they are saying the frame is out of wack. He said the front of frame would need to be pulled out a little and the back needs to be pushed in a little.


What is the cost of doing a job like this?

What are some key words I need to focus on?

What are some things that should make me run from the frame shop?

Can it be done to a corvette with the body on the car?


any advice would be great...

Here is the front specs

Left Front:
Camber: -.10 degrees, should be +.75 degrees
Caster: +6.50 degrees, should be +2.25 degrees
Toe: +0.05"

Right Front:
Camber: -.30 degrees, should be +.75 degrees
Caster: +6.00 degrees should be +2.25 degrees
Toe: .21"

Front Totals:
Total Toe: +.26"
cross camber: +.20 degrees
cross caster: +.50 degrees

 

check with a couple body shops. most of them have a frame stretcher and should be able to tweak it for you. sounds like it won't take that much to fix it

 

sorry about the second reply, brain is tired and forgot a thought.
how about a SECOND OPINION on the alignment. the specs you quoted for the front seem like they could be adjusted by normal alignment adjustments. at the worst maybe replace the shims in the A frames?
toe-in is easily adjustable.. it is not that bad.

 

The problem is they need to take shims out but there isn't any shims to take out.

Left A frame
has 0 shims on front bolt and 4 on back bolt

right a frame (control arm)
has 3 shims on front bolt (stud) and 0 on the back.

I was told that there should be some shims on each side.

The car is off 3.5 degrees on the right side and they put the left side 3.5 out to make it even. They are saying 3.5 isn't really that much and that I could live with it. But I want to know for sure if I have a problem.

I plan on going to several shops. I was planning on hitting one shop per day during my lunch break. I want to hear what they all have to say, but I wanted to know if any one here has ever had this problem. So, I know what I need to look for.

thanks

robert

 

Not sure why it would be so bad unless it was wrecked at some point and not set up properly after... Are all the bushings in good shape? Does the rear line up with the front? You might want a second opinion from another shop about the alignment.... they may be calculating something wrong??? What about the ball joints??? Are those in good shape?

I would never attempt to stretch/twist/pull/push the frame in any way without removing the body first... you think you have problems now... think about what that body is going to do when they start twisting the frame!!

Has anyone done a front spring replacement? If so... be sure the springs are set in the towers properly!! They can be set in the towers wrong(and sometimes not even in the towers) and that will cause some problems as well. :confused:

As far as cost.... no idea... but it won't be cheap!

 

I replace everything in the front suspension my self. I read the shop manual and follow the directions. I could have done something wrong. I don't know...

I replaced the springs as well. What I did for the springs was I just made sure one hole was not overed when I installed them, as per the book i read. the side that the car is having problems also SITs lower then the other side. They said is was because of the frame?!?!?!?

Also the car IS pulling to the right and it NEVER did that before. They can't the toe right because they said the frame is "off".

I am NO suspension expert and this was the first time that i have ever tried to do any major suspension work. I could have installed the springs wrong.

What is the procedure to install the springs??

I did make sure the springs where in the "tower" on the top and the bottem.

If you look at the lower control arm it kind of dips down a little and to me it seemd the start of the spring should go in there, but when I put it in that spot the spring covered BOTH drain holes and the book said to make sure one hole was open. So, I twisted the spring until I saw that one hole remained uncovered.

Someone else also mentioned that I might have the springs wrong..

Robert

 

My front end couldn't be zeroed either, ran out of shims. And it can stay like that.

 

Could you tell me how far off you are??? I am 3 degrees off on my caster... I want to know if that makes that BIG of a DEAL!!!..

 

I don't know about your alignment, but if your frame is bent I would take the body off before trying to straighten it. The big shops can do it with the body on, but that's gonna cost you. I have straightened 2 frames with the body off and there is really nothing to it.

 

It is possible to run out of shims before you get the camber/castor set right without any frame damage. The upper a-arm can "twist" to the front or rear and the lower can "stretch". If you install bushings in the lower without a support between the bushing mounts, the force could squeeze the "ears" closer together. The result is having to remove shims from the upper. You can buy offset shafts for the upper that provide space again for shims. Do this only after you convince yourself that everything else is OK. The problem is that you got to take everything apart again to install those shafts.

So what if your frame is "bent" slightly? If all the body panels fit good and you can get the alignment set right, there's no need to straighten it now. Save it for the body off resto.

I saw something in one of your posts about the lower a-arm at a wierd angle. There is a "Z-Angle" measurement spec in the assembly manual & the good shop manuals. You should be able to measure this yourself if you're careful.

6 degrees camber is hefty compared to specs of 2-1/4 or so. I don't think it will affect tire wear as much as cornering. Your car will probably understeer because of it, but it will snap back to straight ahead when you release the wheel. Camber & toe will affect tire wear. You also said the rear was off (because of another problem?). You cannot accurately measure the front until the back is right. The back has to be in there to give a reference for the front.

 

It's sounding more like something wrong in the suspention work than a bent frame. You don't go into the history of the car much but I think you are saying that it was more or less aligned prior to the recent suspention work you performed. Again, you don't go into the extent of the work you have just done but if you replaced bushings, ball joints, etc. there is the posibility of bending the A-frames and/or the A-arm shafts. I have even been sold the wrong parts which were unnoticable until installed and the measurements didn't make since. This was discovered only by weeks of corrosponding with various manufacturers. The point is, if it was in alignment before, it should line up after. Though it's a lot of work, before I let someone bend my frame, I'ed drop the entire front suspension again, and inspect and reassemble with an open line to Someone like "Vette Brakes & Products" who specializes in Corvette Suspension. I know it's dishartening to think about tearing back into a job you just completed but sometimes it's the best thing to do.
Do you have an assembly manual for your car? The frame measurements are in there. It may be more difficult to do with the body on but on a level surface with plum-bobs and such you may get some answers that way. If you do have frame problems, I agree with those who advocate lifting the body off. The best of all worlds, and the most work, is to send the frame to one of the many excellent Corvette frame restorers.
Good luck.

 

Take the documentation on what you have on the current alignment to a body shop that does frame straightening. Find a good one, ask around at Corvette shops in your area who they would use. Then go to the shop explain what you have and what you want done.
Here in Texas the straightening would not cost more than $300-$400, it might be more expensive where you live.
You should not have to remove the body to do this relatively minor frame adjustment.

 

First, I would like to thank everyone for taking the time to respond to my posts.

As for the history of the car.. I know the owner purchased it back in 1996 for 15k, because I saw the bill of sale. He had it since that time and has only put 2k miles on it. He wanted something new he said and that is the reason why he was selling it. He had a maintenance book that I can't seem to find now but it had 10 to 12 years of maintenance records in it. Giving date and mileage when the oil was changed. Stuff like that. There were no written records with the car other then the little log book. The car drove fine when I took it home other then springs where shot and the shocks were gone as well, and had bad all joints and bushings. Car drove straight and was a very ruff ride but it was fine.

I didn't bother to do an alignment before i did the front end work because I was told that since the car needed new springs, shocks, ball joints and one control arm had NO bushing that it wouldn't align right. All the bushings on the control arms were rotten and falling apart.

I took the car to a shop and they didn't see anything but front end and rear end work needed to be done, and some other little minor things. Leaks here and there. That I was able to fix myself with the assistance of my father.

I just have no idea where to start with this thing. It could be almost anything. it could be bent arms, bent frame :cry I really have no idea where to start.

I have received many e-mails and this is what I plan on doing. let me know what you think.

1. Have the alignment check. Members of the local Corvette club gave me the number for this shop that does alignments only. Custom alignment for racing and such. If there is a suspension problem, they would be able to narrow it down for me.

2. If they tell me it's the frame. I will have the frame measured and I will post the specs of the frame here and get some more advice on what I should do next. Some have suggested that I purchase after market control arms that allow more adjustment then the stock arms from "Vette Brakes and products".

3. If the frame is twisted and requires a new frame then, I am SOL, and write it off as a lesson learned. I don't have the money now for a new frame and I don't even have a place to do a full frame off. The cost is well over $5k if I wanted someone else to replace the frame.

My father looked at the frame and so did the shop they couldn't see any tell tail signs of frame damage, but you never know...

thanks again

The control arms could be bent from driving around on the rotted out front end.


[Modified by Bluewasp, 3:26 PM 9/16/2001]

 

You absolutely sure you have the correct upper control arms on the proper sides?

 

yes.. 110% sure i have them on the correct sides... I left the ball joints on the passenger side when I had the bushing compressed in. when I got the arms back, I put the driver side together and then I removed the ball joints from the passenger. installed new ball joints and put it back together.

Car is going to a frame shop tomorrow to FIND out if it is off ONLY!! NO adjustments will be made. I am going to take it to 3 shops to make sure. One tomorrow. One shop on thursday and I will go to another next wednesday.

Robert