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Notching cylinder heads

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Old 02-26-2007, 07:36 AM   #1
Graemeinvette
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Default Notching cylinder heads

Has anybody tried this? Its supposed to work really well on older engines. Here is the link: http://somender-singh.com/content/view/7/31/
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Old 02-26-2007, 07:54 AM   #2
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hmm, interesting
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Old 02-26-2007, 08:04 AM   #3
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I have old 64cc hump heads on my car now and looking for alum. Maybe I'll spend the money for an extra set of head gaskets and try it.
As soon as I get it together and I can get some sort of baseline from my heads as they are!!!
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Old 02-26-2007, 09:12 AM   #4
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They are very detonation prone. That is really how they work. They create hot spots that light off the mixture. Not worth the time of day if you ask me.
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Old 02-26-2007, 09:29 AM   #5
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It states that by creating more complete combustion it solves that problem.
Thus...Eliminating Ping (also called 'knock' or detonation) allows for an advance setting that is much closer to Top Dead Center (TDC) to get more power from each stroke of the Piston. This quality of a Grooved engine also enables a higher compression ratio with the use of regular octane fuel, thus adding more improvements to the quality of combustion and preventing 'pre-ignition'. It has been well known that higher compression makes a more efficient engine, that's why diesels work so well. The problem is, that increased compression (pressure) also leads to a more volatile combustion chamber and you usually get 'pre-ignition', which means the air-fuel mixture in the cylinder explodes before the spark plug does its thing.

I'm not backing these guys ...I don't know if this works or not. It's just that this is the first I've heard of this theory.
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Old 02-26-2007, 09:51 AM   #6
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Considering the amount of cylinder head development that goes on in the US vs. India, I would be very surprised if this idea hasn't been looked at & discarded before. Just because this person patented it doesn't mean it hasn't been done before. Of course there is a lot of theory that works on paper, but not on the street. But who knows, in 10 years we may all be grooving our heads.
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Old 02-26-2007, 09:58 AM   #7
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My barber said I grooved my head a long time ago!!!
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Old 02-26-2007, 10:02 AM   #8
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It has been done and disproved about 15 years ago. Because of detonation!!!
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Old 02-26-2007, 10:38 AM   #9
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I have to believe you!!! Nothing could be that simple.
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Old 02-26-2007, 03:16 PM   #10
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So let me understand, if you move the ignition closer to TDC, doesn't that mean you are retarding it? Also cutting grooves for a faster flame front? In actuallity wouldn't you be making a longer path for the flame to travel? Can the flame front travel any faster than it does already? Wouldn't it also lower compression by creating more space? Seems to me that these thing are the things we try to eliminate to increase power. Just something to think about.
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Old 02-26-2007, 03:25 PM   #11
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I have no specific knowledge of this proposal....but I do know a couple of things about Western civilization invention and development.
1) Some of the best inventions in Western society were ACCIDENTAL finds. And they were discovered by persons outside the body of knowledge which they benefitted.
2) If it wasn't invented in the US (or western culture), it has no merit. [I'm not proposing this...it just seems to be a prevalent belief.]

So, if the idea is simple and, just with "simple" logic, shouldn't work, we tend to accept that it won't. Therefore, we don't investigate to find the advantage and go on our merry way. Fat, dumb and happy. Example: The Swiss invented the electronic watch many years ago. The Swiss engineering "experts" reviewed the discovery and decided that, if it didn't have gears, it wasn't a watch. The inventor went to Japan to try to sell the idea. Seiko was born, and Swiss watchmaking volume was cut to the core in just a few years.
Moral: Don't discard any idea, just because it is simple and shouldn't work. Or because "we" would have figured it out long ago. You give the US engineering development system a bit too much credit.

Lastly, I'm curious. I'm not an engine builder, but I'd sure be interested in 1 or 2 builders on this Forum giving it a quick try and letting us know the results. If it's simple...and it works, we can all get the benefit.

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Old 02-26-2007, 05:35 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7T1vette View Post
Moral: Don't discard any idea, just because it is simple and shouldn't work. Or because "we" would have figured it out long ago. You give the US engineering development system a bit too much credit.

Lastly, I'm curious. I'm not an engine builder, but I'd sure be interested in 1 or 2 builders on this Forum giving it a quick try and letting us know the results. If it's simple...and it works, we can all get the benefit.

7T1vette
Ship YOUR heads to me ... I'll cut/groove YOURS for free ... I'll return freight collect ... you tell us what you think.

Also, if I read correctly, the inventor prefers a WIDE 0.070" quench in concert w/ the groove. If so, seems like one step back & maybe one step forward?
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Old 02-26-2007, 05:49 PM   #13
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A very reasonable suggestion. But, as I said, I'm not an engine builder and the only set I have are on my '71. I was hoping to invite someone in the business, who might have a set of heads that is servicable --but probably won't be used--to give it a go. But...maybe not. Sorry, I won't be removing my original engine heads any time soon [I hope!].

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Old 02-26-2007, 07:55 PM   #14
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Yeah to me it sounds like it would for surly reduce detonation, but only because it is reducing compression, by making the chamber size larger.... I would never willingly cut groves into even my old junky sets of heads, I just dont like it... but that is just me.
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Old 02-26-2007, 09:16 PM   #15
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Last edited by JPhil; 02-26-2007 at 09:27 PM.
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Old 02-26-2007, 10:20 PM   #16
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There was a guy who did this to a geo and posted a LOT about it. I will try and find where it is. All real world stuff here, no hype. He got the car just to test the method. To sum it up, the car would idle down to about 500rpm and run smooth as silk. Low rpms seemed to run better and have more power at part throttle crusing under 2000rpm or so... And that was it. Anything over that rpm yeilded poor fuel economy, severe detonation, and no power. Think about the world of racing. Its a multi billion industry with billions of test hours and counting. If something as simple as this worked, dont you think every team would be doing it? Sometimes you just have to use a little common sense.
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Old 02-26-2007, 11:57 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hosspowerinc View Post
If something as simple as this worked, dont you think every team would be doing it? Sometimes you just have to use a little common sense.

I routinely look at hendrick & yates & wegner heads ... time/$/tech absolutely no limit ... but there's no grooves.
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Old 02-27-2007, 11:11 AM   #18
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This is a common 20 some year old idea

All alki burning sprint cars run 13.8 - 17 to 1 compression. some engine builder figured out that the high domed pistons were actually impeading the flame travel over the dome crown.

We would hand machine every piston before installing them. The notch we did was actually larger than this as shown.

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