Alright mechanics- help!
Thread Starter
Advanced
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 90
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From: Cumming GA
Update- have it pin pointed to the timing chain. I tightened all the bolts to the manifold and took off belts eliminating fan clutch, balancer, water pump, and power steering pump- I'm still hearing the noise which makes me believe that it's the timing chain. The clicking is more noticeable when it's at idle, and when I accelerate(in park)- it doesn't go away, but it gets weaker.
That being said- one last question(yeah right!- I know)... is the timing chain something that needs oil or some sort of fluid to maintain it- or am I screwed and need to just suck it up and replace the chain? Thanks again to everyone.
For those who guessed timing chain- nice work!
That being said- one last question(yeah right!- I know)... is the timing chain something that needs oil or some sort of fluid to maintain it- or am I screwed and need to just suck it up and replace the chain? Thanks again to everyone.
For those who guessed timing chain- nice work!
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,577
Likes: 2
From: Long Island New York
If you have all your tools ready ahead of time like Durango said, and get an early start on it, you should be able to have it buttoned up and running by the end of the day. After installing the timing chain set be sure to oil up the gears and chain before re-installing the timing cover. After the initial start up the engine will lubricate it from there on out. Also make sure you replace the oil seal on your timing cover before putting it back together. You will also have to drop the steering ram and link from the idler arm to get the oil pan out. It is easier and quicker to disconnect the idler arm from the frame and just drop the whole thing down from there and swing it out of the way. It's not a terribly hard job to do, just take your time and don't forget to re-torque everything back to specs. Good luck, and if you need any help just yell.
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Joined: Aug 2006
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From: Cumming GA
That was my only fear as well Big2Bird- I didn't think they went this early, but who knows.... maybe bad part from manufacturer- I dunno. Haven't started yet- hopefully next weekend I can tackle it. I also want to look at the crank pulleys and what not.
And for suggestions- If I'm already taken all this apart and going to have a lot of things disassembled- does anyone have any suggestions on what, if any, upgrades I can do while I'm at it?
And for suggestions- If I'm already taken all this apart and going to have a lot of things disassembled- does anyone have any suggestions on what, if any, upgrades I can do while I'm at it?
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 37,637
Likes: 3,116
From: Crossville TN
The only thing you could really do [with the teardown you are doing] is check your crank bearings/journals. But I don't know why you would want to do it....unless, you open up the timing chain and find NO PROBLEM! Then, it might be good to verify you don't have a crank bearing starting to go ("slapping"). If you check them, do one at a time then button-up before you go to the next one. Start with the front end and work to the back.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 90
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From: Cumming GA
Sorry to have to do this to everyone again, but I'm just not certain it's the timing chain. I bought everything I would need to replace it, but when I was underneath the car(when it was running), I put the stethoscope right to the bottom of it and heard nothing. Reading some of the other threads about engine knocking sounds- someone advised that it could be a loose rocker arm or maybe even a lifter(to which I could put lifter cleaner in the oil). Are these two things able to be checked by a stethoscope? -because I put it on the valve covers and couldn't hear anything. Thanks again guys.
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 6,134
Likes: 46
From: Raleigh North Carolina
RE: The 50,000 mile T/C set.... yes.... they can go bad in 50K. I installed a "generic" autoparts store set a few years ago.... and I had to pull the engine apart for a different problem at less than 50K miles... the chain was all stretched out & sloppy... it failed.
This is a "generalization*:
"generic" autoparts store timing chain & gear sets are a gamble... they may not last.
Spend the money on a good set.
This is a "generalization*:
"generic" autoparts store timing chain & gear sets are a gamble... they may not last.
Spend the money on a good set.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 6,134
Likes: 46
From: Raleigh North Carolina
The way you worded it makes me think you tightened the intake manifiold bolts instead of the exhaust manifold bolts. The exhaust manifolds (or headers) are the ones on the left and right side of the engine where the exhaust pipes are attached.
It's the exhaust manifolds (headers) that can mimic a noisy lifter... not usually the intake manifold.
Advanced
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 89
Likes: 0
From: angola new york
remember that that the OEM timing cam sprocket is made of aluminum and has a plastic gear poured or bonded to it and mileage isn't necessarily the cause of failure but also the heat and age tend to make the plastic brittle and they crack.they are made that way according to GM to keep the noise level down.(yeah, i know ,sounds stupid but that's what i was told by GM rep many many years ago)
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,837
Likes: 1,028
RE: The 50,000 mile T/C set.... yes.... they can go bad in 50K. I installed a "generic" autoparts store set a few years ago.... and I had to pull the engine apart for a different problem at less than 50K miles... the chain was all stretched out & sloppy... it failed.
This is a "generalization*:
"generic" autoparts store timing chain & gear sets are a gamble... they may not last.
Spend the money on a good set.
This is a "generalization*:
"generic" autoparts store timing chain & gear sets are a gamble... they may not last.
Spend the money on a good set.
Of course they can, it's just rare. As a rule, OEM timing chains will not fail that early. Cheap crap from China can, yes.
He is looking for a noise. I have seen them jump time before getting noisy.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,837
Likes: 1,028
remember that that the OEM timing cam sprocket is made of aluminum and has a plastic gear poured or bonded to it and mileage isn't necessarily the cause of failure but also the heat and age tend to make the plastic brittle and they crack.they are made that way according to GM to keep the noise level down.(yeah, i know ,sounds stupid but that's what i was told by GM rep many many years ago)
Last edited by Big2Bird; Mar 4, 2007 at 09:06 AM. Reason: Error
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 6,134
Likes: 46
From: Raleigh North Carolina
Yes, It is a generalization. Just like " Your wheels should not fall off."
Of course they can, it's just rare. As a rule, OEM timing chains will not fail that early. Cheap crap from China can, yes.
He is looking for a noise. I have seen them jump time before getting noisy.
Of course they can, it's just rare. As a rule, OEM timing chains will not fail that early. Cheap crap from China can, yes.
He is looking for a noise. I have seen them jump time before getting noisy.
"He is looking for a noise. I have seen them jump time before getting noisy."
===> Yes... same here.
Last edited by Tom454; Mar 5, 2007 at 11:11 AM.
Instructor
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 131
Likes: 0
From: Flushing Mich
I have an '81 -50K miles. Recently, I've started to hear a clicking noise around the front of the engine that gets faster when you accelerate (and frankly, louder). I've been reading around trying to find other posts regarding this, but have come up empty.
I got a stethoscope and tried putting it all over the engine, but to no avail. It's not a cylinder- at least i don't think, b/c I didn't hear anything from the valve covers.
Could it be the water pump bearings? (but i bought a new one about 5 months ago- couldn't gotten a bad one i guess)
Or maybe the fan clutch? it's stock.
Any other suggestions? - b/c i'm getting nowhere! Thanks again guys.
I got a stethoscope and tried putting it all over the engine, but to no avail. It's not a cylinder- at least i don't think, b/c I didn't hear anything from the valve covers.
Could it be the water pump bearings? (but i bought a new one about 5 months ago- couldn't gotten a bad one i guess)
Or maybe the fan clutch? it's stock.
Any other suggestions? - b/c i'm getting nowhere! Thanks again guys.
I have an 81 also and had the same issue. It was the solenoid at the air pump. Unplug it and see if it goes away. Takes only a minute.
Also the soleniod at the firewall that controls the EGR will click too.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 90
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From: Cumming GA
Alright gbak, Tom454, and sly vette- you are the winners.... it was indeed a blown gasket- saw the "fire cracker" sly vette was talking about.
I just don't understand since we just replaced the gasket when we changed the headers last October- would it go this soon? I tried tightening the bolts, but it's still doing it... are there any other factors that it might be- like the spark plug or wire? I'm just talking random crap cause I'm still learning here
Also- is it ok to drive until I get repair it this weekend?
I just don't understand since we just replaced the gasket when we changed the headers last October- would it go this soon? I tried tightening the bolts, but it's still doing it... are there any other factors that it might be- like the spark plug or wire? I'm just talking random crap cause I'm still learning here
Also- is it ok to drive until I get repair it this weekend?
Pro
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 589
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Alright gbak, Tom454, and sly vette- you are the winners.... it was indeed a blown gasket- saw the "fire cracker" sly vette was talking about.
I just don't understand since we just replaced the gasket when we changed the headers last October- would it go this soon? I tried tightening the bolts, but it's still doing it... are there any other factors that it might be- like the spark plug or wire? I'm just talking random crap cause I'm still learning here
Also- is it ok to drive until I get repair it this weekend?
I just don't understand since we just replaced the gasket when we changed the headers last October- would it go this soon? I tried tightening the bolts, but it's still doing it... are there any other factors that it might be- like the spark plug or wire? I'm just talking random crap cause I'm still learning here
Also- is it ok to drive until I get repair it this weekend?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 6,134
Likes: 46
From: Raleigh North Carolina
Depends on the location & size of the leak... getting cold air on a hot exhaust valve can cause it to warp.. difference in expansion & contraction rates between the (thick) center of the valve head and the (thin) perimeter. They need to cool down slow after heating up.
I had a broken exhaust manifold on a Ford where the end bolt flange was snapped off. I could remove the chunk of manifold and drive around pretending to have a race car engine.... kind of like what ricers do with their fart pipes.
Hey.... I was young once too.
I had a broken exhaust manifold on a Ford where the end bolt flange was snapped off. I could remove the chunk of manifold and drive around pretending to have a race car engine.... kind of like what ricers do with their fart pipes.
Hey.... I was young once too.