c3 hot starting
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 223
Likes: 0
From: Henryville Indiana
I had the hot hard start problem when I first got the car from the previous owner.Got a NEW 1100 cca battery and tried it again.Same scenario,---the old battery DID test to have a weak cell under load.
Started checking connections,all good.Starter appeared new as did the alternator.The engine had been just rebuilt/modified slightly.406,268 cam,etc
Checked the timing.....wow!!!total of 51 degrees at 2500!!!!
No wonder it wouldn't start hot,base timing was 39 degrees without the vac can hooked up!!
Reset timing and carb to 14 degrees base total 36 at 2500 and set idle speed and mixture. Starts right up even after a 20 mile highway run and a 10 min stop at the c-store.
79 T-top,new motor,paint and new interior in final stages of installation.
Started checking connections,all good.Starter appeared new as did the alternator.The engine had been just rebuilt/modified slightly.406,268 cam,etc
Checked the timing.....wow!!!total of 51 degrees at 2500!!!!
No wonder it wouldn't start hot,base timing was 39 degrees without the vac can hooked up!!
Reset timing and carb to 14 degrees base total 36 at 2500 and set idle speed and mixture. Starts right up even after a 20 mile highway run and a 10 min stop at the c-store.
79 T-top,new motor,paint and new interior in final stages of installation.
Drifting
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 1,542
Likes: 43
From: Plano TX
A new starter may help however over the years it'll also become suseptable to heat soak as windings age.
Actually the main issue is that the ignition switch cannot supply enough current to pull the solenoid to complete the battery to starter motor circuit.
A simple and low cost solution before spending money on starters is adding a relay. The relay is a coomon 12 volt relay availabe at most autoparts stores but get one with a tab for mounting it. The relay will switch 12 volts from the battery directly to the solenoid start connection which provides more current to the solenoid.
To wire the solenoid and keep wiring clean and simple I do the following:
mount solenoid to fire wall on passenger side. Remove the start wire from the solenoid and connect it to one side of the relay coil. You then add another wire to the other side of the realy coil and run it to a engine ground. Have someone turn the switch to start and you should then hear the relay click close.
The next step is to add a 12 gauge wire to the same terminal on the starter the battery goes to. This wire goes from the starter battery post to one side of the relay. Buying a fusible link from the parts store would give you a wire with a large ring terminal on it and also open if the wire ever gets shorted as a bit of extra protection but not required. You then connect the other side of the relay with 12 gauge wire to the solenoid start connection.
The above takes all the current switching off the start switch. By placing the solenoid on the firewall all wiring is simple and easy to route. Plus you'll probably only have $15 in wire, the relay, and the various spade/ring terminals you'll need to crimp or solder to the wires.
There is probaly a kit out there also but getting the parts is much cheaper. Going the Ford solenoid route is overkill.
Actually the main issue is that the ignition switch cannot supply enough current to pull the solenoid to complete the battery to starter motor circuit.
A simple and low cost solution before spending money on starters is adding a relay. The relay is a coomon 12 volt relay availabe at most autoparts stores but get one with a tab for mounting it. The relay will switch 12 volts from the battery directly to the solenoid start connection which provides more current to the solenoid.
To wire the solenoid and keep wiring clean and simple I do the following:
mount solenoid to fire wall on passenger side. Remove the start wire from the solenoid and connect it to one side of the relay coil. You then add another wire to the other side of the realy coil and run it to a engine ground. Have someone turn the switch to start and you should then hear the relay click close.
The next step is to add a 12 gauge wire to the same terminal on the starter the battery goes to. This wire goes from the starter battery post to one side of the relay. Buying a fusible link from the parts store would give you a wire with a large ring terminal on it and also open if the wire ever gets shorted as a bit of extra protection but not required. You then connect the other side of the relay with 12 gauge wire to the solenoid start connection.
The above takes all the current switching off the start switch. By placing the solenoid on the firewall all wiring is simple and easy to route. Plus you'll probably only have $15 in wire, the relay, and the various spade/ring terminals you'll need to crimp or solder to the wires.
There is probaly a kit out there also but getting the parts is much cheaper. Going the Ford solenoid route is overkill.
Racer
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 472
Likes: 0
From: Hartland WI
Have any of you guys tried to Solenoid Relocation mod? Headers and the GM starter/solenoid set up produce a ton of head next to the starter solenoid. Heat soak does indeed create most of the hot start problems. But as I understand it the solenoid is what gets too hot.
I've recently read about using a underhood mounted solenoid and you jump from this relocated part to the original starter and solenoid. (Don't laugh but it is a Ford soleniod that is used). If you have not heard of this do a quick google search and take a look. So popular that some Performance Shops carry complete kits with wiring, heat shrink and solenoids. Was just about to order the parts and decided to check the archives here to see what turns up. My only questions are the best location to mount since our vette batteries are not under the hood.
I've recently read about using a underhood mounted solenoid and you jump from this relocated part to the original starter and solenoid. (Don't laugh but it is a Ford soleniod that is used). If you have not heard of this do a quick google search and take a look. So popular that some Performance Shops carry complete kits with wiring, heat shrink and solenoids. Was just about to order the parts and decided to check the archives here to see what turns up. My only questions are the best location to mount since our vette batteries are not under the hood.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...emote+solenoid
I'm glad I changed my mind. With the mini-starter I didn't have to cut/alter my original wiring and it's been working flawlessly. I've done some pretty good drives on hot days and she fires up without missing a beat now.
Team Owner
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 20,715
Likes: 25
From: Sorrento Italy
sorry i just started a new thread about this iussue...it seems i've got the same problem with hot restarts, only i have the same battery and the same engine (and ancillaries) since 3 years now and never faced this problem.
what happened to me tonight seemed like if there was a battery sudden drain...but i'll know more tomorrow morning, if the battery works means it's something else, otherwise a new battery will be in the pipeline on monday...
what happened to me tonight seemed like if there was a battery sudden drain...but i'll know more tomorrow morning, if the battery works means it's something else, otherwise a new battery will be in the pipeline on monday...
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 3,248
Likes: 48
From: westland mi
Racer
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 316
Likes: 1
From: Southern California
I decided to try the mini starter. Just ordered and will see how it works.
I've had my vette for quite a while. Been down for many years but it was a daily driver in other years. The hot start issue gave me much pain and in the early days I just replaced the solenoid or both starter and solenoid when it got too bad.
After having the motor rebuilt and going with a good set of headers the problem got worst. I went with an OEM new starter and the heat sheild. That did seem to last for a few years with no problems, But I was also driving the car a lot less. Been working off and on it over the past year and ran into the same issue again.
Hopefully this will do the trick.
I've had my vette for quite a while. Been down for many years but it was a daily driver in other years. The hot start issue gave me much pain and in the early days I just replaced the solenoid or both starter and solenoid when it got too bad.
After having the motor rebuilt and going with a good set of headers the problem got worst. I went with an OEM new starter and the heat sheild. That did seem to last for a few years with no problems, But I was also driving the car a lot less. Been working off and on it over the past year and ran into the same issue again.
Hopefully this will do the trick.
