Calling all ZZ4 Converts! Advice needed.
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 23,375
Likes: 1,067
From: Virginia USA
Bob,
The ZZ4's dip stick worked with my headers. It is on the passenger side though. I have Headman's which are the shorty type i.e all the tubes meet at the center then go down and to the back together. I don't know is super comps etc. will clear.
The ZZ4's dip stick worked with my headers. It is on the passenger side though. I have Headman's which are the shorty type i.e all the tubes meet at the center then go down and to the back together. I don't know is super comps etc. will clear.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 40,412
Likes: 792
From: Redondo Beach, California
ZZ4 Flywheels and starters....
For your ZZ4, the GM ministarter, Part 12361146, will work with both 14 inch flywheels (168 teeth) and 12.75 inch flywheels (153 teeth). It has a black painted body. If you want chrome plated, order part 12363128. These ministarters will fit all GM V8's made between 1958 and 1996. (Another starter, 10465385, is recommended for the 502 engine - it needs a 14 inch flywheel). I bought ZZ4 ministarter from Summit. Arrived a day later.
Flywheels: The GM Performance part catalog (2005, page 80) states that "All Chevy small-block and big-block engines with a one-piece crankshaft seal require an externally balanced flywheel or flexplate."
ZZ4's have a one-piece crankshaft seal. The catalog lists the 12.75 inch flywheel, 14088650, as being the "standard-weight flywheel for one-piece crank seal." If you want a 14 inch flywheelfor a one piece crank seal, it's part 10105832.
For your ZZ4, the GM ministarter, Part 12361146, will work with both 14 inch flywheels (168 teeth) and 12.75 inch flywheels (153 teeth). It has a black painted body. If you want chrome plated, order part 12363128. These ministarters will fit all GM V8's made between 1958 and 1996. (Another starter, 10465385, is recommended for the 502 engine - it needs a 14 inch flywheel). I bought ZZ4 ministarter from Summit. Arrived a day later.
Flywheels: The GM Performance part catalog (2005, page 80) states that "All Chevy small-block and big-block engines with a one-piece crankshaft seal require an externally balanced flywheel or flexplate."
ZZ4's have a one-piece crankshaft seal. The catalog lists the 12.75 inch flywheel, 14088650, as being the "standard-weight flywheel for one-piece crank seal." If you want a 14 inch flywheelfor a one piece crank seal, it's part 10105832.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,342
Likes: 7
From: Connecticut
My L-48 has an 11" clutch (I found the receipt from when I bought the kit last year) so that means it has a 14" flywheel.
So,hopefully I will be able to use my old starter with no modifications. I was throwing around the idea of using my old Hayes Street & Strip clutch setup VS spending another $300+
It only has about 3,500 miles on it. Any opinions on this?
GM flywheels for the ZZ are quite expensive... I've seen them new from $170 to $240 but every once in a while I get lucky.
I called a friend that builds race engines to ask him about the flywheel dilemma and heres what I came home with .
A freshly machined unit for $60..... Not bad
Last edited by Bob Onit; Aug 27, 2007 at 03:11 PM.
Drifting
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,841
Likes: 3
From: Halifax, NS, Canada
Yup
My L-48 has an 11" clutch (I found the receipt from when I bought the kit last year) so that means it has a 14" flywheel.
So,hopefully I will be able to use my old starter with no modifications. I was throwing around the idea of using my old Hayes Street & Strip clutch setup VS spending another $300+
It only has about 3,500 miles on it. Any opinions on this?
GM flywheels for the ZZ are quite expensive... I've seen them new from $170 to $240 but every once in a while I get lucky.
I called a friend that builds race engines to ask him about the flywheel dilemma and heres what I came home with .
A freshly machined unit for $60..... Not bad
My L-48 has an 11" clutch (I found the receipt from when I bought the kit last year) so that means it has a 14" flywheel.
So,hopefully I will be able to use my old starter with no modifications. I was throwing around the idea of using my old Hayes Street & Strip clutch setup VS spending another $300+
It only has about 3,500 miles on it. Any opinions on this?
GM flywheels for the ZZ are quite expensive... I've seen them new from $170 to $240 but every once in a while I get lucky.
I called a friend that builds race engines to ask him about the flywheel dilemma and heres what I came home with .
A freshly machined unit for $60..... Not bad
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,342
Likes: 7
From: Connecticut
Yup, I believe your correct.
I think I'm going to go with the Edelbrock aluminum water pump unless someone can convince me that a stock GM pump wont leak and then I'll have all the parts for the swap
The engine will arrive here tomorrow.
I think I'm going to go with the Edelbrock aluminum water pump unless someone can convince me that a stock GM pump wont leak and then I'll have all the parts for the swap
The engine will arrive here tomorrow.
Drifting
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,841
Likes: 3
From: Halifax, NS, Canada
I am sure you will be very happy with the Edelbrock Victor Series pump. It is made to fit the ZZ4 without grinding off or replacing bolts. Thickness is also correct for any mounting brackets that are bolted to it as well.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 6,231
Likes: 65
From: Seattle WA
St. Jude Donor '14
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,970
Likes: 45
From: Cameron Park CA
[QUOTE=Bob Onit;1561668243]Thanks guys!
I know I have an 11" clutch so I know I have a 14" flywheel and need to replace it with a 14" as well. And and my starter bolts are staggered too.
I am still curious as to what others have used and where they bought it because I will be ordering the flywheel before I start the swap
QUOTE]
FWIT, the 2007 GM Performance Parts Catalog, page 207 has a chart of available small block flywheels that could be helpful to in making your decision. You can also view the catalog online at http://www.gmperformanceparts.com/_r...talog_2007.pdf in which case the chart is on page 205.
Not to say you need to stick with a GM flywheel, but this info should help you figure out what you need.
I know I have an 11" clutch so I know I have a 14" flywheel and need to replace it with a 14" as well. And and my starter bolts are staggered too.
I am still curious as to what others have used and where they bought it because I will be ordering the flywheel before I start the swap
QUOTE]
FWIT, the 2007 GM Performance Parts Catalog, page 207 has a chart of available small block flywheels that could be helpful to in making your decision. You can also view the catalog online at http://www.gmperformanceparts.com/_r...talog_2007.pdf in which case the chart is on page 205.
Not to say you need to stick with a GM flywheel, but this info should help you figure out what you need.
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Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,342
Likes: 7
From: Connecticut
FWIT, the 2007 GM Performance Parts Catalog, page 207 has a chart of available small block flywheels that could be helpful to in making your decision. You can also view the catalog online at http://www.gmperformanceparts.com/_r...talog_2007.pdf in which case the chart is on page 205.
Not to say you need to stick with a GM flywheel, but this info should help you figure out what you need.
Thats the first place I looked
It's a bit confusing
Part numbers have been changed, ext balance was not stated on certain parts, ect:
Thanks!
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,342
Likes: 7
From: Connecticut
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,342
Likes: 7
From: Connecticut
It is probably putting down around 290 to 300 to the road.Here are the numbers from the last pull.
Not a rocket but certainly not a dog.
282.3 RWHP @ 4,500 RPM
376.2 RW TQ @ 3,200 RPM
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 6,362
Likes: 7
From: Brazos TX
Cruise-In IV Veteran
Cruise-In V Veteran
Not bad numbers. What carb are you using? We are still in the 500 mi break-in period for our ZZ4. It has good power (I would like more) and I'm looking forward to the reliability.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,342
Likes: 7
From: Connecticut
Holley SA 670
I still have a vibration at 1200 RPM that I cannot seem to get rid of... I'm going to swap out the poly engine mounts back to rubber and see if that helps any.
Other than that it's a great little engine with tons of torque.
I still have a vibration at 1200 RPM that I cannot seem to get rid of... I'm going to swap out the poly engine mounts back to rubber and see if that helps any.
Other than that it's a great little engine with tons of torque.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 6,231
Likes: 65
From: Seattle WA
St. Jude Donor '14
ZZ4 advertised is 355HP@5300 and 405TQ@3600HP
Drivetrain loss estimates are 18-20%
355 * .8 = 284 HP
405 * .8 = 324 TQ
So this engine is putting out a tiny bit less than advertised horsepower (but within 2 HP of what I posted 8/24 and got shot at for
), and a fair bit more than advertised torque. Those are darn nice numbers for a street engine, IMHO.
Would be interesting to see the whole curve considering where the power peaks are in relation to advertised RPM.
Drivetrain loss estimates are 18-20%
355 * .8 = 284 HP
405 * .8 = 324 TQ
So this engine is putting out a tiny bit less than advertised horsepower (but within 2 HP of what I posted 8/24 and got shot at for
), and a fair bit more than advertised torque. Those are darn nice numbers for a street engine, IMHO.Would be interesting to see the whole curve considering where the power peaks are in relation to advertised RPM.
Last edited by billla; Oct 26, 2007 at 04:23 PM.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,342
Likes: 7
From: Connecticut
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 2,116
Likes: 156
From: Mid West
Cruise-In III Veteran
If you have any doubts about a ZZ4's capability here is a chassis dyno run I made a couple of years back (RWHP). It is NOT a stock ZZ4, but it hasn't been heavily modified either. Mods are:
1 - GM's Hot Cam
2 - AFR's rev kit
3 - Manley "race flow" valves, springs, and retainers
4 - Light porting the ZZ4 heads at home to remove machining marks, casting irregularities, etc. while I had the heads apart. I didn't increase the port volume much at all; just cleaned them up. These were the 1st heads I've ever ported and didn't want to screw them up.
Best 1/4 pass to date is 12.8 @ 108 mph.
Don't pay attention to the blue curve, I was WAY lean the first run. I had to pull off the dyno and jet up 6 sizes in the carb.
1 - GM's Hot Cam
2 - AFR's rev kit
3 - Manley "race flow" valves, springs, and retainers
4 - Light porting the ZZ4 heads at home to remove machining marks, casting irregularities, etc. while I had the heads apart. I didn't increase the port volume much at all; just cleaned them up. These were the 1st heads I've ever ported and didn't want to screw them up.
Best 1/4 pass to date is 12.8 @ 108 mph.
Don't pay attention to the blue curve, I was WAY lean the first run. I had to pull off the dyno and jet up 6 sizes in the carb.
Former Vendor
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,092
Likes: 2
From: walpole ma
buy the flywheel right from the dealer. It is for one piece rear seal ,168 tooth flywwheel. gm has them new for that motor.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 6,743
Likes: 1,385
The Pace Performance catalog helped me....
when I was trying to determine what clutch to use on my RamJet 350...since it came with the pseudo-external/internal balance flywheel.
It lists GM Part numbers too.
http://paceperformance.com/index.asp...=Custom&ID=663
It lists GM Part numbers too.
http://paceperformance.com/index.asp...=Custom&ID=663