Hello Everyone,

I am curious as to everyone's thoughts on the difference between the Max Performance Suspensions packages out there with the front/rear fiberglass monosprings versus the new front/rear coilover kit offered by Van Steel. Specifically:

1. Ignoring price, which kit would you all choose and why?
2. I am looking to slam my car low, and I know it is more difficult to do in the rear. Which kit will let me go lower while maintaining some suspension travel?
3. Other feedback

Thank you for all of your help in advance.

 

Is this for all out performance or part of a cosmetic mod project?

 

I don't think you'll find many people with full coilovers. Only select few have done this and it has been done by DIY guys. If you in it for performance, I believe the coilovers are the way to go. No cross talk in the springs like you would get on a fiberglass spring and coilovers are designed to absorb bumps and dips in the road better. The ride height adjustablity is there and you can change spring rates easily. You can also adjust rebound and compression on the shocks.

 

Its a bit of both. I'm totally rebuilding my C3, and taking both cosmetics and peformance equally into account. As far as Cosmetics go, I need to lower the rear a lot... Which one will provide the most adjustability?

 

If all out handling isn't your top or only priority, I don't see the point in going to the trouble and expense for coil-overs on a C3, but for maximum performance coil-overs are the way to go. However, IMSAEO, if you go with coil-overs I wouldn't bother with off the shelf pieces and end up compromised with someone's idea of what best suits a general market.

What then? This isn't something for anyone who doesn't already know their way around suspension dynamics, but for true hardcore types with a couple thousand plus to spend, KONI-North America Racing will build you a set of double adjustable (or 4-way adjustable) coil-overs, custom valved and sprung to meet the requirements of your specific application and your individual purposes. Just make certain you're dead serious and prepared to do a bit of homework before you call.

http://www.koniracing.com/home.html

BTW, I can put you in touch with someone who I believe has a used set available, less springs, if you're interested in possibly saving a few dollars by having them rebuilt.

 

What are you saying is wrong with my rear set up?

 

Uh-oh.

 

Sorry, I'm not claiming that it can't or doesn't deliver excellent results, as coil-overs are superior to anything else available. And, I certainly don't want anyone to get the idea that your company doesn't sell top notch equipment, as you've got a well deserved reputation in the market.

I'm speaking in terms of hardcore here, and it is in that respect that I don't see the point in leaving anything on the table. Given the wide variety of purposes and a very broad range of weights, any one-size-fits-all setup that attempts to cover this vastly diverse field must, by definition, be a compromise when compared to a specifically engineered system.

That's not to say such a compromise wouldn't suit a very many customers, which it must do to be a viable offering, just that such an approach cannot insure absolute max performance, if that is one's ultimate goal, for every possible C3 application. That's why true racing shocks don't tend to be off-the-shelf items.

Hope that clarifies my obviously jaded point of view (100 road races will do that to you), and I apologize for any offense you may have taken from my earlier reply.

 

 

Thanks for the opinions everyone.

Van Steel, let's assume a 28 inch tire diamater, and I desire to have the distance from the ground to the top of the outside wheel well to be just below that. Would your rear coilover kit allow that with sufficient suspension travel (given that I might have to modify the inside of the wheel well to allow more travel)?

thank you.

 

I have the VB front transverse spring and I think it's fine for general purpose comfortable driving. I have it set up very soft with a large anti roll bar and it's just right for me. I don't notice the crosstalk that others mention and it doesn't seem to bother the C4s, C5s or C6s.
If I was racing, I would probably go with coil overs for individual corner adjustablity.

 

Why do you continue to make the statement that "coilovers are designed to absorb bumps and dips in the road better"? I asked you this in another thread, and your answer boiled down to the fact that many coilover kits use adjustable shocks. Guess what, you don't have to use coilovers to get adjustable shocks. You don't need coilovers to get adjustable ride height. Instead of continuing to make this generic statement, you tell us exactly how coilovers are better at absorbing bumps and dips in the road?

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...ight=coilovers

 

I see where you are coming from and it does clarify what you stated. No need to apologize although I do appreciate it.

I would love to be able to offer custom Koni shocks over the QA1 but as with everything in this industry there has to be a price point. Most, probably 90%, wouldn't buy the kit w/Koni's just because of the price. Even though you & I both know that they are superior shocks.

I sent Koni some shocks to see if they could duplicate. They could but the price was almost double. Heck most people have a hard time buying a $300 set of Bilsteins.

For true hardcore guys, yes there DEFINITELY are better shocks out there and some of those guys are willing to drop the cash, but most are not.

We do encourage people to call us about these types of systems. We like to feel them out to see what they are trying to accomplish so we can offer them different spring rates. Racers do get higher spring rates over street guys. We feel that is better. Like you said, the weights of these cars are all over the board and if we can custom tailor a kit for someone, we will definitely try to do so.

 

Anytime you lower a car your going to loose suspension travel. If your shock is 14" extended and 10" compressed you have a 4" stroke. The shock with all the weight on it should sit close to the middle of your stroke. Drop the car down 2" and not you only have a 2" stroke.

Currently I am having one of my guys lower my car so we can take more measurements and calculations. When you lower these cars you also have to worry about the angle of the 1/2 shafts. If you go down too far, the 1/2 shafts will not be angled downward (from inboard to outboard) or parallel. The shafts should be angled no more than 5 degrees or else your u-joints will start to bind.

I think, and this is without measuring anything yet, that if we lower the mounting point of the lower shock mount bracket for you, this will help achieve a lower stance and give you the suspension travel you will need since you stated you wanted to slam the car. You will have to run the 28" tall tire though.

 

For general purpose driving, no you may not notice the cross talk in the front spring or dual mount rear spring. But when you are into performance driving you will notice it if you know what it is. This does seem to bother the C5 guys and C6 guys. Do a search on coilovers and you'll find tons of threads about it. Thats why lots of the C5 & 6 guys are going aith PFADT coilovers. Did you know that you can get cross talk in sway bars too? Kind of why the Germans went to a Z-Bar sway bar in their cars.

 

No need to be so hostile. Sometimes things can go over peoples heads and they won't understand. How about this:

There are a lot of benefits to coil overs apart from the obvious ease of spring swapping and ride height adjustment, but there are important benefits as spring and shock tuning allows you to set up the suspension to suit your car much better than with any other system. The spring coiling the shock means that the shock and spring operate at the same rate regarding the wheel rate. This makes it easier to understand why a change in one has a certain effect. Also, if placed closer to the axis center line the coil over will have a spring & shock rate closer to the wheel rate, meaning that it is able to respond quicker to the wheel movements and it's more sensitive to smaller movements. Furthermore with the shock rigidly mounted it will control the complete wheel movement, something which is not possible with a transverse spring because you use cushions, and most kits only spring load the suspension on bump and not on droop. The spring has to be stiff enough to follow the suspension very closely or it will just float. Then there's the benefits of the shocks being rebuild-able, re-valve-able and generally much higher quality than ordinary shocks. They are also more rigidly mounted compared to the stock shock setup. Furthermore the coil overs give absolute true independence and allow you to fine tune the rear suspension much closer by addition of a sway bar, unlike the transverse leaf which takes away from true independence.

 

Some trivia about shocks:

I use to run these "experimental" shocks on my 78 back in 1979-1986 in autocross events..(not coilovers)...they were made by Four Way Suspensions,a company that made suspension parts for off-road (desert racing).
I think they were trying to get into the Corvette (C3 market),not sure..anyway,they never went into full production...U.S. Patent 3464688...numbers on the shock itself are 22007696(probably a part no.) then followed by 300 -78...they are very stiff gas shocks with 3/4" shafts..


The 300/78 number is the valve rating for this shock...

Rich

 

Thank you for your help sir. Please let me know the results of this. We already have the 28inch tire (27.9 inch to be exact) in place.

Thanks again everyone.

 

Thanks to Van Steel for getting back to me so quickly on coilover kit. I appreciate it.

It looks like I'm going to be moving forward with the full front/rear coilover kit, which means I have a brand new (mounted, but never driven on) front/rear monospring setup with double offset t-arms and new a-arms. Anyone interested (email me at hill3335lilo@yahoo.com)? Its located in Quebec... I will post in the parts forum soon as well.

Dave

 

When you're talking about serious performance on the street or the track, coilovers not only win hands down but it's the only way to go.

...could i add?: 'period'
(or does it sound too hostile? )

just joking, have a nice and peacefull sunday everybody