Ok, again I'm wrong. But, can you give me some reason why I'm wrong. It is easy to just say someone is wrong and leave it at that. I'm trying to learn something here, so please tell me, in what way am I wrong? Also, please don't throw me in with the environmentalists and Gore, I am not one of them.

You say I'm wrong about being able to get away from foreign oil. I am of the opinion that if Americans put their minds to it, we can do anything. I think we can if we just decide to. Often times, that is the hardest part of the equation, just deciding to do it. We have the technology, all we need to do is get on with it.

It has been said that ethanol is not cost effective, it cost's too much to make it. Well, I can think of no other better use for solar and wind power than this. I would think that somewhere along the line you would be able to sell enough to pay for the equipment that it took to make it. I thought that that was one of the basic principles of business, eventually you sell enough product to pay for the stuff it took to make it. Or am I wrong about that to?

I have put out some ideas in my last several posts and had people simply tell me I'm wrong without giving any information as to why. If the same sort of thing had happened several thousand years ago we would not have the wheel today. That would have ruined all of y'alls weekend fun now wouldn't it.

BigBlockk

Later.....

 

I Too, Would Be Interested In Your Version Of The "FACTS", LT1driver.

 

Then tune up your engine so you aren't belching out so much unburned gasoline.

 

show me an old car that don't stink to high heaven.


yea, i know an LS1 conversion.

 

First, let me say there wont be a "reply" to any rebukes of this post. I probably wont read this thread again, but I have to state my OPINION on this topic as well.

1- Someone said we will never get away from non-US oil. Yea-right, do you think we always bought our oil from the arabs? We sell most of the oil we pump out of the ground to other countries so we can buy it from them, dont believe Bush when there is a buck to be made.
2- Get oil from South America, Mexica etc.. Who owns most of those oil fields??? I bet he wears a towel on his head..
3- Who owns the corn fields now? Write the department of energy and get the name of the company and then search the owner/major share holder, bet he has sand in his sandals.

Bottom line is, we each have an opinion and "FACTS", but rarely are we 100% correct. Our government leaders have put us in the position to depend on the Arabs, we cumulatively dont do anything to stop it. Honestly, do you think the cost of refining a barrel of oil has more than doubled in the last 2 years? The equipment they used was already paid for and the oil was thiers. In any other industry its called gouging and is against the law.

Now on the E85- well, I have a flex fuel vehicle and its cheaper to run gas and runs better with alot more power. I think to be comparable, the E85 engine would have to be re-designed from the ground up to run on E85 and you probably wont be getting it to run on gas afterward. Its all about POLITICS, nothing more. Whos hand is washing whos behind is whats going to be in for this term.

I'm not against E85 (obviously), but there is more than meets the eye and NO-ONE has all the facts or you would be keeping it to yourself for fear that Homeland Security will get you...

 

There are companies selling E85 conversion kits now.

No way - if it is viable, it will stand on its own in the market. Thinking of this sort is just stealing money and productivity from the general public.

How about the US? There is a ton of oil here but the enviro's have convinced the average citizen that we are "bad" if we use it.


You're ignoring a lot of physics here - regardless of how much you "wish" something would happen. There just isn't enough enough energy in solar and wind to power a tractor etc. required to grow ethanol fuel sources. Even ethanol itself won't cut it.

What are you talking about? "We" don't sell oil to other countries. Those countries who own the oil sell it to whomever they want. For the most part, the oil taken from the US is used in the US.


Wow - you'd be absolutely wrong. It's owned by the country in which it was taken. The US, Canada and Australia (maybe another?) are the only countries where the gov't doesn't own the minerals.

 

Maybe you should have Lars look at your carburetor.

 

I Believe That Alternate Energy Sources Need to be Explored, And Put In To Use...There Is One Thing About "Mother Nature",.... She All Ways Wins,... In The End.
As To Crude Oil Production World Wide...According To Some Of The "Experts" In The Oil And Investment Professions: We Are At The Top Of The Apex Of "Peak Oil" We Have Left The "Buyers Market"....And Crossing Over In To The "Sellers Market". The Unknown Is What Does "Father Time" Have To Say.

 

as i remember you work for an oil company. Your job is not going away. Oil will be around for a very long time. I think we will be suplimenting it with ethanol and biodiesel. I mean it's already here in the form of 10%.

Nuclear power is a ace in the hole we still have. You can get a lot of energy to put into the ethanol production process.

Its going to happen. It may not be the cheapest source but eventaully the environment will win over the dollar. People are going to vote it in.

You got to get out of the mindset of cheapest wins. You have to consider many other things.

 

Amen to that!

 

Hydrogen combustion, period. All the rest is an ending or in-between/crossing-over phase.

Which doesn't mean they are bad phases. Using biofuels, even though earth's capacity isn't quite sufficient to meet the total demand contributes to less oil dependance and pollution. Whether Gore is right, or not (I think not), less polution is always good (less NOx for instance).

Example: In The Netherlands LPG is very common and CNG is becoming more popular. Although they are (semi) fossil fuels, they contribute to the environment. Furthermore they delivered us a great deal of useful information on how to convert your normal gasoline engine for use of other fuels. In a reliable way, without making performance sacrifices.

This information has been highly valuable (for BMW) in the development of hydrogen cars and hopefully will result in a conversion kit for our engines just like the USD 2000,- kits now available to convert my smallblock to LPG.

I don't know about you guys, but besides still having oil or no oil in a few decades, eco laws are becoming more and more strict and I'm not opting for putting in a bunch af d**ned batteries for an engine!

 

The manufacture of hydrogen fuel from natural gas produces greenhouse emmissions. The transportation, storage, distribution of hydrogen is far more complex and costly than gasoline or E85. The h/p achieved from a given amount of Hydrogen is less than gasoline requiring more fuel to make up the difference. I don't agree with this hydrogen hype. The White House and the fruitcakes in California are on this kick also........it's crazy and flawed politically motivated science.

 

Interesting thread.
I haven't got time right now to say much more than "Here's an interesting place/idea to take a look at."

http://www.switch2hydrogen.com/

 

Yes, It Is Flawed Politically.....Everything Happing In Todays Time, Concerning Alternate Energy Sources For Motorcars. Was To Begin In 1992...And The Applied Technology Increased Every Year By 10 Percent, To The Production Line.

 

I like nuclear energy, NIMBY (not in my back yard) of course , but I fail to see how it can be integrated into the ethanol production process. You aren't going to farm with it and I can't see how it helps in moving raw material and the final product around which is where most of the energy is consumed.

 

remember oil has to be pumped out of the ground and tankered here at great risk to the oceans. It has to be refined which takes a lot of energy in the form of electricity.

ethanol needs fertilizer which i hear takes a lot of electricity to produce. The corn has to be distilled which takes energy in the form of electricity. The diesel to run the tractors is not that big of a factor.

There is so much confusion and misinformation out there.

 

Algae has potential for benefits in many areas. Unfortunately the algae lobby doesn't have much sway in congress.

http://www.byrneltd.com/energy/algae.html

There is no magic bullet. But alternatives must happen, because times are changing and our 'glory days' of the past are gone forever. It will be a combination of ideas and technologies and time, but it will happen.
Assuming of course we can avoid WWIII and the forced "Rapture" which seems so idyllic to some.....

 

Real interesting link.....who would have thought algae as a feedstock for biofuel.

 

I'm sorry, but you have obviously not bothered to read anything on this subject. Neither have you viewed the Jay Leno clip I posted earlier.
Hydrogen for instance is produced from (destilled) water, using electrolyses. No natural gasses required whatsoever.

Furthermore, like Turtle stated, a little less performance doesn't outweigh the advantages. And when you have zero emissions, what does the extra fuel consumption matter?
Like I said before, we already have extensive experience with storage and distribution of LPG en CNG, wich isn't very much different from H2.

I did extensive research on this subject and I can safely say the only flawed reaction here is yours.

 

I love rants so I'm going to joint this one! I'm not an expert at all, but enjoy the topic.

1. It takes roughly 4 gallons of water to produce 1 gallon of ethanol. This is a serious problem in corn producing states as we already have water table level problems. At the very least, assuming we dont run out of it, water prices will sky rocket. http://acad.carleton.edu/projects/et...dWaterFAQs.htm

2. "The world has used up about 930 billion barrels of oil since the 1800s, and has left some 3 trillion in the ground. That estimate includes about 732 billion barrels of not-yet-discovered oil and an assumed growth in reserves in already discovered fields, the USGS reckons. So by now, the world has used up about 23 percent of its total available petroleum resource, Mr. Ahlbrandt calculates. Most people using USGS numbers figure world oil output will flatten in 2036-37, he adds. But non-OPEC oil output could peak between 2015 and 2020. " http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0129/p14s01-wogi.html

3. The Colorado Rocky mountains have shale oil reserves that alone could produce enough oil for the U.S. for 100 years. Shell oil is about 3 years of research away from having the technology to do this. "Shell claims that their process is economic when oil prices are above $30/bbl. (4) However, it is always important to note that this is a moving target – especially with a low EROEI process. A process with a low EROEI by definition is very susceptible to increases in the cost of the energy inputs, and $30/bbl presumes that the price of the energy inputs is not increasing along with the cost of oil."
http://i-r-squared.blogspot.com/2006...-imminent.html