I've found VB&P / guldstrand alignment specs but the rear toe is specified in fractions of inches. The alignment sheet I got from the alignment shop specifies this in degrees. Does anyone have the specs in degrees

The only thing I know so far is that they set it up wrong but I need some figures to make a good argument. So far, they've set the rear toe to -1 degree / +1 degree, with one toe in and one toe out.

Is it correct to think that a rear wheel driven car should have a small toe out that will flex to neutral when torque is applied to the wheel?

 

Post up the numbers from the alignment shop, and I'll take a look at them against the factory specifications.

 

These are the numbers in degrees and minutes:
Front Camber: 0°20', 0°00'
Front Caster: 1°24', 1°47'
Front Toe: 0°16', 0°13'

Rear Camber: -0°11', -0°09'
Rear Toe: -0°55', 1°04'

If I understand the specs I've found, these numbers are within specs except the rear toe that is awful. What do you think?

 

No, you definitely want toe in, otherwise the car will be all over the road.

 

Ok, thanks for helping.

The number quoted as toe is then toe-in and should be positive for both rear wheels if I understood you right.

 

Here are the factory specs for your year:
Front Camber: 0.75° +/- 0.5° (yours is at 0.33°, and 0.00° so it's out of spec, cross tolerance is 0.5°)
Front Caster: 2.25° +/- 0.5° (yours is at 1.4° on the left and 1.78° on the right. Left is out, right is just barely in. Cross tolerance is 0.5°.)
Front Toe: 0.5° +/- 0.13° (toe should be listed as a total number for the vehicle, rather than per wheel. However, it looks like you're at less than 0.30° total toe, which would be out of spec.)

Rear Camber: -0.88° +/- 0.75° (you're only in by the barest of margins on both wheels.)
Rear Toe: 0.25° +/- 0.13° (once again, toe should be specified as a total vehicle number, but those settings per wheel are horrible.)

If your alignment shop said that those numbers are acceptable, demand a refund and find a shop that actually cares about (or knows) what they're doing. It's possible that caster may be slightly out of spec, some cars just won't go in. Camber and caster should be as close as possible side-to-side. 0.0° cross tolerance is the goal. 0.5° is edging towards bad handling. Even without that rear toe setting, that's a bad alignment. With that rear toe setting, it's one of the worst I've ever seen. If they simply couldn't get the rear toe any closer than that, even with the proper shims and such, something is very, very bent in your rear suspension.

(I know VB&P and Guldstrand specify 0° or even negative toe for performance applications. I have to disagree with them on that, such setting should be causing all sorts of bad handling. For the street, the factory numbers are the best way to go.)

 

I took my car to a local mechanic that I have trusted for years, paid for a four wheel alignment on a fancy electronic machine. I got it back with one front tie rod end and sleeves assembled wrong, the front end was toed WAY OUT (which made the car dangerous to drive), the camber was not in spes side to side, caster was.. well who knows how bad it was. The service manager said it was going to be too hard to align the rear so they refused to do it. He did not offer any money back (for credit on work not performed). They said it was aligned to Chevrolet specs and he gave me the print out to prove it. Only problem is those specs were wrong according to every thing I have read about aligning a C-3.
I drove the car for about a week and decided I could not live with that horrible handling. I put new shims in the rear, made some tools at home to check camber, caster and toe and fixed it myself. Always toe in the front about 1/8" total and 1/16" to 3/32" total rear, get as much front caster as you can, 2 deg camber on front and rear is usually enough.

Enjoy!

 

Many thanks, those numbers and opinions are just what I needed to make a good argument.

 

It never ceases to amaze me how many mechanics manage to screw up a simple alignment. Modern electronic machines are designed to be so easy to use that a deranged monkey on crack can get things set up properly.