Aluminum Heads
Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 992
Likes: 56
From: Baldwinsville, NY
Are the Patriot Head any good?
I have been looking at both the Patriot heads and GM Vortec heads for a mild rebuild on L48.
Scoggin Dickey has the Vortec with .525” lift with intake, bolts and gaskets for $1000.00, and adding Aluminum Patriots is $300.00 more.
Do you guys feel that based on quality and potential installation problems I should stick with cast iron for my first ever engine modification?
Scoggin Dickey has the Vortec with .525” lift with intake, bolts and gaskets for $1000.00, and adding Aluminum Patriots is $300.00 more.
Do you guys feel that based on quality and potential installation problems I should stick with cast iron for my first ever engine modification?
Racer
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 324
Likes: 0
From: South Elgin IL
I'd stick with Vortecs too.
The only reason for the extra lift would be if there is a cam change planned in the future that would exceed the stock Vortec .450 lift. If not, then yeah, a standard set of Vortecs would work if this was just a head swap on a standard L48 engine.
The only reason for the extra lift would be if there is a cam change planned in the future that would exceed the stock Vortec .450 lift. If not, then yeah, a standard set of Vortecs would work if this was just a head swap on a standard L48 engine.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 992
Likes: 56
From: Baldwinsville, NY
Heads & Cam
Im strongly looking at:http://www.sdparts.com/product/SD806...merIntake.aspx
With one of these cams, http://www.sdparts.com/product/KITSD...3quotlift.aspx
or: http://www.sdparts.com/product/KITSD...5quotlift.aspx
If I take the heads off, with 80K and 30 years on the old cam, why not go for a change. Just do not know what cam, with 4 speed and 3:36 rear. 204/214 or 214/224.
With one of these cams, http://www.sdparts.com/product/KITSD...3quotlift.aspx
or: http://www.sdparts.com/product/KITSD...5quotlift.aspx
If I take the heads off, with 80K and 30 years on the old cam, why not go for a change. Just do not know what cam, with 4 speed and 3:36 rear. 204/214 or 214/224.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 6,359
Likes: 428
From: Seattle Area WA
The 64cc heads will wake up that motor by bumping your compression up to approx 9.50 with a .015" head gasket. The larger of the two cams will have very nice manners with added torque. It appears to be the same as the popular cam sold under the Summit P/N of K1103. With the above assumptions and a thin Fel Pro 1094 head gasket, you'll have a DCR of approx 7.7, using a thicker head gasket of .026" your DCR will drop to approx 7.5.
Mike,
Keep in mind that the RPM intake is tailored more towards a higher RPM range than what your motor will see and is also very tall. You have the raised hood but I assume you will be going to a chrome drop base air cleaner setup anyway. I had to remove the hood insulation blanket on my old '78 when I ran an LT1 intake manifold. The Performer manifold may be an alternative to think about.
It sounds like it will be a nice little motor with your selection of parts. Now just get the distributor recurved for a performance timing curve.
Mike,
Keep in mind that the RPM intake is tailored more towards a higher RPM range than what your motor will see and is also very tall. You have the raised hood but I assume you will be going to a chrome drop base air cleaner setup anyway. I had to remove the hood insulation blanket on my old '78 when I ran an LT1 intake manifold. The Performer manifold may be an alternative to think about.
It sounds like it will be a nice little motor with your selection of parts. Now just get the distributor recurved for a performance timing curve.
Last edited by Scott Marzahl; Jan 11, 2008 at 05:50 PM. Reason: added intake info
Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 992
Likes: 56
From: Baldwinsville, NY
Cr & Dr
Thanks, that was intresting.
Your correct, the cams look like 1102 or 1103 summit jobs with the same lift and degrees.
The SDParts uses a Performer, there are kits with RPM and RPM Air Gap, with the low compression I think the performer will work.
What is the normal gasket size and what would the CR be as compared to what you mentioned. With cast iron heads I should be able to use a thin gasket.
What was most intresting is the CR and DR stuff. L48 limits what I can or should do. What I flip flop the most on is Aluminum or Cast Iron heads, 206/214 or 214/224 cam.
I think we are going with Vortec Heads and the 214/224 cam. Now I only have to think about what cam position I might use, 0 or 4 degrees advanced.
Having fun waiting for spring.
http://picasaweb.google.com/mikepthr...04673584089138
Your correct, the cams look like 1102 or 1103 summit jobs with the same lift and degrees.
The SDParts uses a Performer, there are kits with RPM and RPM Air Gap, with the low compression I think the performer will work.
What is the normal gasket size and what would the CR be as compared to what you mentioned. With cast iron heads I should be able to use a thin gasket.
What was most intresting is the CR and DR stuff. L48 limits what I can or should do. What I flip flop the most on is Aluminum or Cast Iron heads, 206/214 or 214/224 cam.
I think we are going with Vortec Heads and the 214/224 cam. Now I only have to think about what cam position I might use, 0 or 4 degrees advanced.
Having fun waiting for spring.
http://picasaweb.google.com/mikepthr...04673584089138
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 6,359
Likes: 428
From: Seattle Area WA
Those cams are already ground advanced on a 107 ICL. You would want to degree them straight up. There is no performance gain to warrant the cost aluminum heads on this motor IMHO. I also thought the stock Vortec heads were rated for .480" lift, but someone mentioned .450", if they were .480" the cheaper Vortec heads would be fine for your cam.
A thicker .026" head gasket lowers your compression to approx 9.25. You'll have a tighter quench with the thinner 1094.
A std .040" gasket is out of the question IMO.
A thicker .026" head gasket lowers your compression to approx 9.25. You'll have a tighter quench with the thinner 1094.
A std .040" gasket is out of the question IMO.
Last edited by Scott Marzahl; Jan 11, 2008 at 10:04 PM.
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Advanced
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 88
Likes: 0
From: Ferndale MI
I second scott's brodix suggestion.
Keep in mind IK200 has very large ports & requires fp 1206 gasket ... and it's quite possible they won't fit just any manifold that might be laying around. IK180 has smaller ports & requires fp 1204 gasket and will fit most any manifold. Sadly, a pal ran into this very situation and had to exchange IK200 for IK180 ... No longer available were any decent manifolds that'd fit huge 1206 and a Qjet AND fit under his hood.
Nix the asian heads ... spend another $300 & get the good stuff.
http://www.brodix.com/heads/ik.html
Keep in mind IK200 has very large ports & requires fp 1206 gasket ... and it's quite possible they won't fit just any manifold that might be laying around. IK180 has smaller ports & requires fp 1204 gasket and will fit most any manifold. Sadly, a pal ran into this very situation and had to exchange IK200 for IK180 ... No longer available were any decent manifolds that'd fit huge 1206 and a Qjet AND fit under his hood.
Nix the asian heads ... spend another $300 & get the good stuff.
http://www.brodix.com/heads/ik.html
Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 992
Likes: 56
From: Baldwinsville, NY
Heads & Cam
Scott, I was planing on the modified head combo from Scoggin Dickey with .525 springs instead of .460 for about $130 more.
What is the pro's and con's of .15 head gasket or .26, which will I have the least trouble with?
What is the pro's and con's of .15 head gasket or .26, which will I have the least trouble with?
Advanced
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 88
Likes: 0
From: Ferndale MI
Thanks, the frame is a Paul Neuman which allows me to accept C-4 suspension. I kept breaking half shafts at the strip so I am hoping this will solve my problem. I have the IK200 heads with an RMP performer manifold. I have major clearance problems because I am running the stock hood!
Racer
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 324
Likes: 0
From: South Elgin IL
Those cams are already ground advanced on a 107 ICL. You would want to degree them straight up. There is no performance gain to warrant the cost aluminum heads on this motor IMHO. I also thought the stock Vortec heads were rated for .480" lift, but someone mentioned .450", if they were .480" the cheaper Vortec heads would be fine for your cam.
A thicker .026" head gasket lowers your compression to approx 9.25. You'll have a tighter quench with the thinner 1094.
A std .040" gasket is out of the question IMO.
A thicker .026" head gasket lowers your compression to approx 9.25. You'll have a tighter quench with the thinner 1094.
A std .040" gasket is out of the question IMO.
SDPC Vortec Cylinder Heads and Head Kits
Home > Engine Components > Cylinder Heads > SDPC Vortec Cylinder Heads and Head Kits
Our Vortec cylinder head kit provides you with everything you need to install the new Vortec heads on your vehicle. The following kits include assembled Vortec heads, head gaskets, GM head bolts, GM stamped steel rocker arms, intake manifold, intake gaskets, 12 point intake bolts and additionl required components as stated.
Stock Vortec head kits - features stock out of the box Vortec heads that are good for about 0.450" lift.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 992
Likes: 56
From: Baldwinsville, NY
I was looking at the upgraded ones on this site. The cam I am looking at has ? .465 lift on the exhaust.
take a look here: http://www.sdparts.com/product/SD806...merIntake.aspx
take a look here: http://www.sdparts.com/product/SD806...merIntake.aspx
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 65,492
Likes: 230
From: Orange Park Florida
OK, assumpiton #1 IF you have a reasonable decent shape engine....L48 whatever....and you want power AND economy what with gas being 3+ bux/gal.....I suggest you find stock L98 aluminum heads if necessary and rework them for a total investment of less than 400 bux.....then you put on DPFI for cheep these daze, and double your fuel economy damn nearly, and get much better operation....
you out the door for less than 1500 bux, probably nearer 1200 total, and you got it ALL....
BTDT, that's my opinion....
you out the door for less than 1500 bux, probably nearer 1200 total, and you got it ALL....
BTDT, that's my opinion....
Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 992
Likes: 56
From: Baldwinsville, NY
Vortec or L98
Well, Scott, My Mach 5 and Silver 80,
I have been looking on E-Bay, C3, C4, Camaro Forums and at local yards for L98 heads. I find that people want too much or the whole engine at 1.5K.
When the car comes out in April and I can not find used L98's then new Cast Iron Vortecs, 214/224 cam with Edelbrock Performer Intake. That should be fun till mid or late May when the driving starts.
I have been looking on E-Bay, C3, C4, Camaro Forums and at local yards for L98 heads. I find that people want too much or the whole engine at 1.5K.
When the car comes out in April and I can not find used L98's then new Cast Iron Vortecs, 214/224 cam with Edelbrock Performer Intake. That should be fun till mid or late May when the driving starts.
