Go with what engine you can afford... you will not have any more issues with the 502 vs 454 ... both are torque monsters... but not enough to damage you rearend with regular street tires... ITs BURN BABY BABY BURN....besides you will only wish you got the 502 anyways...

For what you spend IMO... you can have just as much power and more drivability with a LS Crate Motor (440 LS2) which is cheaper than the 502BBC

LS2 lighter smaller package... I bet you will run faster than the BBC on street tires. check it out in GM parts

 

I've always wanted a BB, so I think I'm going to stick w/ that plan. But, I would like to spend the lesser amount on that 454 than the 502 (more $$ for transmission, clutch, etc). I would think that guy building a 454 (the one I posted above was actually a 475ci) that pushes 500 HP/torque would get me down to the lower 12's. Is that a good assumption? I'd love to go for the one posted above, but I figured 571 HP/588 Torque is probably too much for a stock rearend and pushing close to the torque limit on the TKO-600 tranny.

 

Save some weight and money and go with a 400 small block.

 

I totaly understand that, I also want a big block in my car, I would really like to build a blown BB but $$$$$ is always the problem. You can build a small block 427 for weight savings or if you had the cash and you were worried about weight buil a 565 all aluminum BB....LOL From your previuos post I gather that you will not be dragging the ar that much and you want the fun factor on the street, I don't think you are too concerend with weight...am I right? It sounds like you just need to put a BB in it a 454 or 502 whichever your wallet can handle and put a stick behind it with a decent set of street tires.

You have the fun factor of a stick and the cool faxtor of a BB and still plenty of power to get a 12 sec pass when you make it to the track.

This is of course just my opinion....

 

Spot on! I'm not looking to get into drag racing on the track, just want a good powerful vette to have fun w/ on the streets. I'm thinking a car that would run low 12's on the track is about the perfect performance for what I want. What do you think about the TKO-600 tranny? I just want to make sure I do everything correctly the first time so I can just have fun w/ the car and not worry about parts breaking b/c of torque, etc.

 

I hear you on that...I do not know much about that trans, I have not had any exsperience with it. I do know that the kinda power you are looking for a T-56 mentioned befor will hold up just fine.

What is the fastest car you have been in? You say you want a fun street car and you want to run low 12 passes. Some guys may tell you wrong and act like it is no big thing but a low 12 sec car 12.30 or faster is a really good running ride and is very respectable on the street!
Dont exspect to get a BB and toss it in the car and run a 12.15...it does happen but it also takes some know how with combo and learning how to drive. If you figure you buy a decent BB lets say 450-500 hp you may have some work cut out to get a 12.15 or so I am not saying it can not be done not at ll it is very attainable but there is tunning involved and driver skill especially on street tires.

The reason I ask what the quickest car you have been in is because I think a 12.80 or so car is a great running street ride and feels very strong. I am just mentioning this so you do not get a thought of building this car and running a certain time, a decent BB, good driver and tunning is very capable of low 12's I understand wanting to do it right the first time that is a great way to think and do but there are always things to change later on. Also the part about not breaking anything....I don't want to scare you but I don't care who you are if drag you car and play with it at some point something will break that is just part of hot rodd'in It may be minor or major but it will happen.

 

Nice response... good points here.

You gotta be realistic brother.

Nothing is never not going to break..if that make sense??

But I have busted...many a Big Blocks on the street and on the track with a small block... no guarantee you will run low 12's with a HO 454... especially running a manual trans (5 or 6 speed) and street tires...

BURN BABY... BURN BURN !!!

more than anything... you better be a hell of a driver...

I beat a guy last night at the track with a 08 SHELBY GT MUSTANG 6lbs of BOOST dynoed 425 to the wheels... KILLED HIM 13.7 @105 to my 12.2@112


of course he had a manual trans and street tires... but he dynoed 100 more HP than me... LOL

 

When I still lived near Pittsburgh, there was a guy who owned a mid-'70s C3, who had dropped-in a bone-stock ZZ502 crate-motor, with an 850 double-pump Holley and 'on-sale' headers:
behind it was a THM400 he had laying-around, with a 10" converter he'd had for years, 3.90-gears, and 29" x 11" slicks for use at the strip.

Knowing the IRS was weak, he left the starting-line easy, recorded 60'-times in the 1.9-range, shifter at 5400 RPM (I saw the shift-lite with the 5400-pill installed), and ran 12-ohs @ 112 MPH with very-little tuning done..... it idled at 800 RPM, and the motor was maintenance-free:
every time he leaned-on the converter during a launch, he'd bust the rear-end, but 'walking' off the starting-line (I'm not sure why he used slicks, with his ultra-soft launch) and recording low-12s is impressive, and could probably be repeated with some type of sticky-street tire.

 

LOL.... I am a small block guy too....I would love to have a big block because lets face it who would'nt and like you I have spanked plenty of BB guys grant it I have fairly healthy SB but still a lot is driver. You can beat other cars that have much more power due to traction and driver.

I have just seen so many guys build or are in the process of building and say "yeah it will be a 11.0 car" or what ever then they get to the track and it runs a 14.30 I see a lot of this with my tuner buddies. In my book the car does not have an ET until it goes down the track. I can guess at what my car would run but I naver say it will run this or that because it has'nt yet. You also never want to get your exspectations to high becasue then you just get disapointed. it takes work to get a car running real strong, if you make tons of power then you now have to tweak suspension and learn to drive better.

I think Flyviper wants a good running fun car ride with a BB and I can totally understand that, I do not think he is too concerend with dragging the car all the time. But hey we all have different wants and goals.

Point is to just enjoy your ride and have fun

 

I've been looking at a lot of BB engines, but I'm having a hard time deciding. I know it's just an estimate, but what kind of performance would you guess on a ZZ454 w/ a TKO-600, street tires and an average driver (I wish I could say I was better!)? Any guesstimates on 1/4 mi / 0-60 times? I don't want so much power that all I do is burn for 500 ft before "catching," but I do want enough power to get that big grin! Thanks guys.

 

Bad Driver mid to low 13s @105-108 on street tires.

Good driver High 12s 12.9-12.7...with drag radials and 60ft better than 2.0

 

what kind of time should I expect with a 638ci BB and slicks?

 

Low-mid 9's without even trying if it hooks!


JIM

 

If it has a rearend and trans to hold that beast....

 

No problem....he just scored the only complete Dana 60 IRS similar to mine that has been on the market in who knows how long. He'll be fine!

Trans will be next on the list.

JIM

 

So that is where it went. With the 4.56 rear gear what do you do about a trans? Need overdrive but the TKO is a 2.87 first gear which is way to low of ratio. Overall first gear ratio of 13.09 to 1.
I got a new, never installed, loaded, Autogear Supercase M22 rockcrusher, best of everything, all brand new autogear internals with the high nickel italian 2.20 gearset and hurst competition plus shifter that will handle the power, give you a first gear ratio of 10.03 to 1 and bolt right in. Might sell it and go to a TKO 600 RR with my 4.11. If your interested PM me.

 

Has Flyviper settled on a big block over small block. I dont get it, I understand there is no replacement for dispacement, but unless your looking to build a race car out of it why go for the big block other than for status.
I am about to bust into the 11s on a very streetable 12 year old 400 small block. I figure the small block gives you quite a few advantages over a big block including.

Cost, which can be significant
Weight / handling
easier to work on and around
availability of parts
sleeper, every one expects big blocks to be fast

So for my money, the small block wins out everytime, unless I wanted to build a race car above and beyond what I could get out of a small block.

 

Hmmm........I have always figured the opposite to be true. Tuning either one IMO yields the most bang for the buck and cost the same for either motor,

However to get the HP from a SB car to beat up the TQ that is easily available from a BB car eventually starts to cost more than what the BB will besides the BB is much more street friendly not having to as radical as a smaller displacement motor making equivalent power.

Maybe if one is considering the initial cost of a new motor to be included in the price of performance maybe there is a difference that favors the SB but to compare SB cars to BB cars and what it takes to lower the drag times of either to beat the other car, the BB will beat up on the SB for less cash spent.

Doug

 

Since he is looking to buy a new motor I am saying the small block is better for what I think he is after. What's the point of paying a ton of money to get one of these monster big blocks that your not going to race and will just fry your tires. I will have my big small block into the 11s soon, and I am sure all in it cost alot less that what he will pay for a new big block. I can fry tires with the best of em giving me the grin he made reference to, infact I have that grin everytime I get in the car or look at the car. Will his big block put out more power and torque? Probably but unless this car is being set up to handle it , it's all just potential maybe never to be used.

I still vote for a big cube small block!

 

I'm with you Arch.

Long live the stroked small block!