Just so we're clear guys...Bill and Manuel...I consider both of you experts when it comes to this kind of thing and I trust both of you when it comes to your advice and suggestions.

 

Sorry all for the 400 rod journal size misinformation guys. I guess I completely got that wrong.

-Mark.

 

Hey Mark don't worry about it. That's what this forum is all about. We all learned something, which is better than nothing.

 

Hey, we've all done it - that's why we're all here...to help each other out!

 

This is a great fourm. NP with most people here. We are all people just wanting to have fun with our cars!!!!!

 

No idea what this means. Let He Who Has Never Had an "Oh, <explitive>" Moment In Engine Building Cast the First Stone. I've been here more than once in my (non-professional) engine building. Anyone that hasn't - pro or am - either a) hasn't built many engines or b) never pushed the limits like DB is doing.

 

Exactly, thanks Bill.

Glen, I have assembled over 20 engines in my time as an adult. My very first one, almost 11 years ago, still runs in my Vette right now. All have been mostly stock with the exception of the last two. This one I am finally building for myself incorporates a lot of new things that I have never done before and there is a steep learning curve when there isn't anyone here to show me how to do the things I don't understand yet.

That's why I love this forum. ANYONE can not understand something and come here for clarification. I asked a question and YOU try to give me a hard time about it? Pitiful.

 

Hey DB,
I'm all for saving money and spending it wisely but with the cost of new parts being relatively low as compared to the high costs of machine work for overhaul, why not just use a new set of GMPP rods for less than $250. I wouldn't use SCATs because they weigh too much but Eagle also makes a relatively inexpensive rod very close to OEM weights.

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...1&autoview=sku

In addition, Competion Products sells rebuilt GM rods for less than $170.

http://www.competitionproducts.com/p...number=804335P

 

I appreciate the links but I just installed the new pistons and rods in the engine today at lunch.

I had a set of Vortec rods in the garage that didn't have a home. I took them to the machine shop with my 400 rods and pistons, and dropped them off.

The machine shop cleaned and magnafluxed all the Vortec rods, and gave them a clean bill of health for use in my 405. The pressed in the pins for the full floating pistons and I picked them up on the way home for lunch.

I installed one just to be sure it would all work out and I had my .025 drop. I then installed it's sister, and had perfect clearance between the crank and the rods and the rod caps and stud ends cleared the block with no notching.

I then went ahead and mounted the other six pistons and all went well.

I have yet to check carefully for cam clearance but I didn't feel anything hitting so I might not have to do any more work to those pistons.

Once my cam exchange goes through and I have the new cam I can check for the clearance and finish bolting everything back together.

Thanks again for the suggested links. Using my rods, and free machine shop labor meant my total for that trip was $40 for the original R & R of the first set of rods.

 

Well you can't argue with free machine work and $40! Sorry DB but I don't understand your statement about having pressed in pins with full floating pistons. I believe it’s a contradiction of terms. I was of the understanding that one either uses pressed pins to secure the piston in place OR uses bushed rods with retaining clips to achieve a full floating piston configuration.

 

Yeah I didn't mean full floating. The pins were pressed into the rod end and the pin floats in the piston. I've been on full rush mode trying to get cleaned up after being in the garage and speeding back to work.

 

Scott, I'm kinda confused on your recommendations - more info, please.

Most of the I-beam style rods are pretty close on weight. I don't see a benefit to OEM weight, as most likely the pistons are lighter and so the whole assembly needs to be balanced - especially in a stroker design. Heavy bobweights on a stroker suck because of the limited size of the counterweights...if we end up having to put in Mallory, we're spending some serious $$$.

The GMPP "pink" rods are the LT1 type I noted earlier - they are VERY "fat" in cross-section and will not clear the cam with a 3.75 stroke, nor will the stock rebuilt rods offered by Competition Products.

The Scat rods have the benefit of being stroker-clearanced out of the box.

Just not sure I undestand the recommendations for this application...

 

Congrats!

Definitely still need to measure the rod/cam clearance...

 

Yep, "pressed pins" always "float" in the piston

 

Yep I'll do that as soon as my cam exchange goes through and the new cam arrives. I did a rough test using a dummy truck roller cam and it all cleared fine, but the new cam is likely to have taller lobes. I won't know more until the cam comes and I can get it installed.

Does anyone have any pics of connecting rod clearancing so I can understand better what happens is I need to have them clearanced?

 

Hi Bill,
I was trying to provide DB with some cheaper alternatives to the used rods with original fasteners. As you previously stated, used fasteners should be scrapped, especially since rod bolts are susceptible to failure from stress fatigue. Rod bolts are one item that should not be over looked, but replacing them requires the large end to be machined, and installing new ARP bolts, magnafluxing and machining in most cases is more than a new set of economy rods. I chose to recommend OEM weight type rods to help keep balancing costs down. As for clearance, I've only had to grind the head bolts on OEM rods for additional clearance in a 3.75" stroke engine, perhaps this is not the case for DB's build. I do not prefer SCAT rods mainly because of their inconsistent weight and overall finish. When I was doing the group Crower rod purchases on the forum, some guys were looking for cheaper alternatives to the Crower rods. I met with the Probe guys in Torrance and SCAT guys in Redondo Beach and looked through pallets of rods. The cheap SCAT rod weights ranged from a min 615 grams to over 645 grams with matched weights of about 2 grams. If one were to rebuild a stock performance engine using 645 gram rods, you'd be adding Mallory to the counterweights. After using and selling Crower rods I couldn't bring myself to sell the cheap SCAT stuff. Some of their more expensive stuff is OK as are the Probe products, both are offshore products. If this was my motor, I'd use a set of Crower Sportsman Stroker rods in it. I hope this addresses your questions.

Regards,
Scott

 

It probably raises more than it answers and I'm still confused - but I appreciate the background

 

DB,
Off the top of my head, some of the Vizard books cover prepping and clearancing stock rods for stroker applications.

 

It looks like you have great advice here, but one thing wasn't mentioned much- balancing. Make sure your new assembly is balanced, because PM rods do not weigh the same as stock 5.565" 400 rod, any standard early 5.7" rod, etc etc etc.

You are having the new assembly balanced at the machine shop, right? Also, make sure you do any of the needed clearancing before you do the balancing!

 

Not trying to be a smart azz but don't most guys at CF qualify as non-professional car builders?