HOT 383 question.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 761
Likes: 0
From: san jose California
HOT 383 question.
ok so i want to build a HOT 383 this winter... foreals this time...
will be using the block from my GM goodwrench 350 260 hp crate (4bolt main 2pc seal)
im going with either of these rotating assemblies (which ones would you recommend?)
http://flatlanderracing.com/
one of the carrillo K1 kits: 350, 6.0 rod, 3.75 stroke
http://speedomotive.com/ps-520-85-38...roker-kit.aspx
im going with a Weiand Stealth Intake
Sticking with the Winchester carb
CompCams Hyd 286 cam
the question is can this set up hold up against AFR 210 heads?
im thinking of having around a 10:1 compression and hopefully 12s in the quarter.
thanks!
Jonny
will be using the block from my GM goodwrench 350 260 hp crate (4bolt main 2pc seal)
im going with either of these rotating assemblies (which ones would you recommend?)
http://flatlanderracing.com/
one of the carrillo K1 kits: 350, 6.0 rod, 3.75 stroke
http://speedomotive.com/ps-520-85-38...roker-kit.aspx
im going with a Weiand Stealth Intake
Sticking with the Winchester carb
CompCams Hyd 286 cam
the question is can this set up hold up against AFR 210 heads?
im thinking of having around a 10:1 compression and hopefully 12s in the quarter.
thanks!
Jonny
Drifting
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,360
Likes: 3
From: NORTHEAST
We have been suppling kits from Callies which comes with Compstar crank, Compstar rods, Maule pistons and rings, bearings and balanced for 2150.00
Same kit with Scat I beam rods with 7/16 bolts is 1950.00
Have your block sonic tested for cylinder wall thickness and if those are stock caps 3412 center caps you may want to step up to either splayed or billet 4 bolt replacement caps as it sounds like you going with some quality stuff.
Our last build we used the 195 AFR's Eliminators.
http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=236517
If your block does not test very good you may look at one of these blocks.
http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12112
Same kit with Scat I beam rods with 7/16 bolts is 1950.00
Have your block sonic tested for cylinder wall thickness and if those are stock caps 3412 center caps you may want to step up to either splayed or billet 4 bolt replacement caps as it sounds like you going with some quality stuff.
Our last build we used the 195 AFR's Eliminators.
http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=236517
If your block does not test very good you may look at one of these blocks.
http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12112
Last edited by BLOCKMAN; Sep 26, 2008 at 08:12 AM.
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 21,953
Likes: 1,444
From: Reno Nevada
2024 C3 of the Year Finalist- Modified
From Flat lander: You can even get the 4 inch stroker
Crank: 350 Main, 3.875" Stroke, 6.000" Rod Length
Rod: 6.000" 4340 Forged H-Beam Rod w/ARP 7/16" Cap Screw Bolts
Rings: 1/16 x 1/16 x 3/16
Crank # Rod # Piston #
(Type) Piston
Bore Comp. Ratio Column A
Kit # Price Column B
Kit # Price Column C
Kit # Price
58cc 64cc 70cc
4-350-3875-6000 2-350-6000-2100 PREM. FORGED
(DOME) 4.030 12.2 11.4 10.6 1-40900-1 $1379 1-40900 $1525 1-40900BI $1659
Crank: 350 Main, 3.875" Stroke, 6.000" Rod Length
Rod: 6.000" 4340 Forged H-Beam Rod w/ARP 7/16" Cap Screw Bolts
Rings: 1/16 x 1/16 x 3/16
Crank # Rod # Piston #
(Type) Piston
Bore Comp. Ratio Column A
Kit # Price Column B
Kit # Price Column C
Kit # Price
58cc 64cc 70cc
4-350-3875-6000 2-350-6000-2100 PREM. FORGED
(DOME) 4.030 12.2 11.4 10.6 1-40900-1 $1379 1-40900 $1525 1-40900BI $1659
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 6,231
Likes: 65
From: Seattle WA
St. Jude Donor '14
What are your HP and TQ targets?
Budget?
Transmission type? Gears?
How do you intend to use the car? Street? Drag? Autocross?
A "quick and dirty" quarter mile calc shows around 450 FWHP to get into the mid 12's. That's a pretty warm 383
More information = better guidance
Budget?
Transmission type? Gears?
How do you intend to use the car? Street? Drag? Autocross?
A "quick and dirty" quarter mile calc shows around 450 FWHP to get into the mid 12's. That's a pretty warm 383
More information = better guidance
Last edited by billla; Sep 26, 2008 at 09:42 AM.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,202
Likes: 3
From: MD
That is a pretty small cam for a 383. I've got 224/234 @.050 on the cam in my 383 and it's still got a smooth idle all the way down to 750rpms. You could easily go up to a Comp cams 292H and not have issues tuning. Remember that a 383 quiets-down what would be a more radical cam on a 350.
I'm running the Stealth intake on my 383 and frankly I love it. It's a bit tricky to torque down because of the way it's cast, but it does provide a very nice broad range.
If you're looking for a torquier engine (and who isn't) I'd stick to the AFR 196 competition ported heads or the AFR 195 heads if you're on more of a budget. Go with the comp cams 292H, the Weiand stealth, and a nice 650cfm carb.
My 383 is running 10.2:1 with a smaller cam (a custom grind slightly more radical than the comp cams 270H), the Weiand stealth, and a BG 650 mech secondaries. No drivability issues whatsoever. In fact, I wish I'd gone with a larger cam. Mine is not up to your 12sec goals however, so you'll have to go more radical (I'm leaving a good 50 hp on the table with my ported iron heads though).
I'm running the Stealth intake on my 383 and frankly I love it. It's a bit tricky to torque down because of the way it's cast, but it does provide a very nice broad range.
If you're looking for a torquier engine (and who isn't) I'd stick to the AFR 196 competition ported heads or the AFR 195 heads if you're on more of a budget. Go with the comp cams 292H, the Weiand stealth, and a nice 650cfm carb.
My 383 is running 10.2:1 with a smaller cam (a custom grind slightly more radical than the comp cams 270H), the Weiand stealth, and a BG 650 mech secondaries. No drivability issues whatsoever. In fact, I wish I'd gone with a larger cam. Mine is not up to your 12sec goals however, so you'll have to go more radical (I'm leaving a good 50 hp on the table with my ported iron heads though).
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 761
Likes: 0
From: san jose California
i THINK the cam i have (not in the car) is a 286
the car will be a frequent driver, not daily driver. i already have a TKO 600 5 speed, 3.36 rear end.
the block is from a new crate so i dont think ill have issues but if i do i will just get something aftermarket
im not sure what hp im looking to get, hopefully north of 500, but low 12 would be nice ( or just 12.. thats still pretty fast!)
bottom line i dont mind a chopy idle, what cam would you suggest?
i want to run the 210s b/c i might supercharge down the line and dont want my heads to be an issue if i decide to go that rout
the car will be a frequent driver, not daily driver. i already have a TKO 600 5 speed, 3.36 rear end.
the block is from a new crate so i dont think ill have issues but if i do i will just get something aftermarket
im not sure what hp im looking to get, hopefully north of 500, but low 12 would be nice ( or just 12.. thats still pretty fast!)
bottom line i dont mind a chopy idle, what cam would you suggest?
i want to run the 210s b/c i might supercharge down the line and dont want my heads to be an issue if i decide to go that rout
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 6,231
Likes: 65
From: Seattle WA
St. Jude Donor '14
500+ FWHP is a very different animal, especially if you're thinking about forced induction.
IMHO (all IMHO) aftermarket block required, all forged rotating ***'y and even bigger heads. The cam is the least of your worries out of the box
IMHO (all IMHO
) aftermarket block required, all forged rotating ***'y and even bigger heads. The cam is the least of your worries out of the box
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 761
Likes: 0
From: san jose California
ok let me give you the 411:
originally wanted to use a dart performance 400 block ($1500) to build a sbc 427. thought about it and realized it would cost me around 8k to have it all done. too much!
ive been trying to build an engine for the last 3 years, and everytime i try to build something it gets too expensive and i end up building squat!
im trying to stay with something not soo radical but still a staut engine so i dont feel like 'i shoulda waited and got a better one'
right now i have 3500 bucks saved up for the project, come winter i should have another 3k by the time i get back to school around the end of january.
im basically asking what type of cam ill be looking at getting if i go the AFR 210 route and what kind of power i could expect from that combo.
supercharger is a BIG IF right now, i just want a engine!
Rotating assembly will be ALL FORGED
originally wanted to use a dart performance 400 block ($1500) to build a sbc 427. thought about it and realized it would cost me around 8k to have it all done. too much!
ive been trying to build an engine for the last 3 years, and everytime i try to build something it gets too expensive and i end up building squat!
im trying to stay with something not soo radical but still a staut engine so i dont feel like 'i shoulda waited and got a better one'
right now i have 3500 bucks saved up for the project, come winter i should have another 3k by the time i get back to school around the end of january.
im basically asking what type of cam ill be looking at getting if i go the AFR 210 route and what kind of power i could expect from that combo.
supercharger is a BIG IF right now, i just want a engine!
Rotating assembly will be ALL FORGED
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 6,231
Likes: 65
From: Seattle WA
St. Jude Donor '14
IMHO, your approach is what's causing problems - work backwards from your budget and find out what you can afford to build, don't try to build what you want for power and find out you can't afford it As they say, one engine between the frame rails beats two on the stand!
You of course recognize that the design for a SC engine is completely different than a max-power NA engine, right?
$6.5K is a pretty tight budget for 450+ FWHP NA - I'd be happy to take a swing at it...but if you just want someone to tell you what cam to go with for those heads without doing the rest of the engine design then you may get an answer...but it won't be a good one.
You will always want a "better" engine...but as you note you can't always get what you want. But if you try sometimes, you just might find you can get what you need
As they say, one engine between the frame rails beats two on the stand!You of course recognize that the design for a SC engine is completely different than a max-power NA engine, right?
$6.5K is a pretty tight budget for 450+ FWHP NA - I'd be happy to take a swing at it...but if you just want someone to tell you what cam to go with for those heads without doing the rest of the engine design then you may get an answer...but it won't be a good one.
You will always want a "better" engine...but as you note you can't always get what you want. But if you try sometimes, you just might find you can get what you need
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 761
Likes: 0
From: san jose California
honestly i think you are absolutly right.. i just want to build something already.
id be happy with 450, i just want something that i can have fun with at the track and have a healthy engine.
are the 210 realistic on a 383 or should i just go the 195 route?
thanx
and yes i know its completly diff buillding a force induction and a n/a engine, just wanted to be able to reuse my heads if it ever came to it
id be happy with 450, i just want something that i can have fun with at the track and have a healthy engine.
are the 210 realistic on a 383 or should i just go the 195 route?
thanx
and yes i know its completly diff buillding a force induction and a n/a engine, just wanted to be able to reuse my heads if it ever came to it
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,295
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From: one night in Bangkok you are never lonely
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 6,231
Likes: 65
From: Seattle WA
St. Jude Donor '14
I'd take a hard look at the budget math - $2K for a rotating ***'y, 2K for heads and 1K for a retrofit hydraulic roller leaves 1.5K for EVERYTHING else...and IMHO you're going to be short.
If I was going to tackle a budget 450+HP build, I'd start with a late-model truck Vortec roller block. And although we're right at the top of the HP range for this configuration, I'd go with a SCAT or Eagle 383 cast rotating ***'y with hypereutectic pistons. Reuse the factory spider and lifters and a new roller cam. Top with a set of AFR195 Comps (the 210's if you want to buy just 1 set of $2K heads if you go blown) and pair them with a single-plane and a 750 cfm mechanical-secondary carb. Figure on align-boring the mains with ARP studs along with the other req'd machine work, including balancing...critical for this build.
That's going to get you into the ballpark and within your budget - barely. And it's NOT a foundation for a blower motor or spraying NOS, clearly.
There are a lot of routes to get to this power level - none of them cheap :/ I throw this out as blood in the water for the I-made-500HP-for-$2500 crowd
If I was going to tackle a budget 450+HP build, I'd start with a late-model truck Vortec roller block. And although we're right at the top of the HP range for this configuration, I'd go with a SCAT or Eagle 383 cast rotating ***'y with hypereutectic pistons. Reuse the factory spider and lifters and a new roller cam. Top with a set of AFR195 Comps (the 210's if you want to buy just 1 set of $2K heads if you go blown) and pair them with a single-plane and a 750 cfm mechanical-secondary carb. Figure on align-boring the mains with ARP studs along with the other req'd machine work, including balancing...critical for this build.
That's going to get you into the ballpark and within your budget - barely. And it's NOT a foundation for a blower motor or spraying NOS, clearly.
There are a lot of routes to get to this power level - none of them cheap :/ I throw this out as blood in the water for the I-made-500HP-for-$2500 crowd
Drifting
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,360
Likes: 3
From: NORTHEAST
Becareful of the late model Votec blocks as most of them are not accept a fuel pump.
And some one peice seal blocks will not accept the factory spider
If needed I have one that has been sonic tested cleaned and magged as it has Pro-Gram splayed center caps, stud kit, line bored and line honed, decked to 9.000, bored and plate honed to 4.0305
PM me if interested
And some one peice seal blocks will not accept the factory spider
If needed I have one that has been sonic tested cleaned and magged as it has Pro-Gram splayed center caps, stud kit, line bored and line honed, decked to 9.000, bored and plate honed to 4.0305
PM me if interested
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 81,241
Likes: 3,062
From: altered state
St. Jude Donor '05
There are a lot of routes to get to this power level - none of them cheap :/ I throw this out as blood in the water for the I-made-500HP-for-$2500 crowd
Talk to Blockman aka "The Professor" , he will steer you straight.
Get with one builder/build plan and stick with it otherwise youll go bananas. I cant tell you how many guys have changed their mind halfway through, ran out of money and inthe end Im eating poop and shipping parts back to them undone. Meantime no build gets done, everyone loses. Dont be impatient, take your time, get the money and do it ONCE.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 761
Likes: 0
From: san jose California
