OK, well at least it sounds like I got what I needed then.

Instructions! We don't need no stinking instructions! or at least the manufacturer thought we didn't... I guess I shouldn't expect too much for 2 bucks LOL.

 

In the picture you are referring to, I had just wired up the gauges after cutting & installing & hadn't actually wired it into the wiring harness yet. That was latter & a different day, I do remember correcting this with the info in that download but I will post a new picture of how it is currently wired. WOW, GOOD EYES!

Here is a diagram I drew up of what wires are going where on the harness I cut into. #6 orange I still don't know what is.

 

I took these today.

 

Wow......

 

Known around here as a " RAT`S NEST".

 

I think you need a trip to the hardware store for some crimp connectors, then rip that train wreck apart and do it correctly. With that setup, odds are you're going to spend more time figuring out WHY something quit working that you will driving and enjoying the car.
Just a quick look at the first picture I see 10 possible places for failure- and that's without looking at the wires themselves real close. I'm not picking your work apart, just trying to help you not have to do it more than one time. Let me put it this way- I am an aircraft inspector (for real)-so I may be a little more critical, but I'd hate to see you burn down when it would be a fairly easy fix right now.

 

Wow just wow, what a copper collection you have behing your dash. I think you should fix those splices one by one first.

 

I agree its a mess but I'm going for pure function right now not looks. Really no point in making the wires all nice & neatly bundled & adding permanent connections at this point in time if it isn't working right because I'll just have to rip it all right back apart & redo it. I'm just not at that point yet. I promise to make it neat pretty & permanently secure, once the problems are fixed.

I found this 1978 electrical troubleshooting shop manual on ebaY.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1978-CORVETTE-ELECTRICAL-TROUBLESHOOTING-MANUAL_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2 em118Q2el1247QQcategoryZ34215QQihZ027QQi temZ400023060884QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWD1V
But my cars a 79 so I assume it wouldn't help. If I found a 79 book like this would it even be what I'm after? I'm looking for something more in-depth than a wiring diagram with these problems. Something that tells me "a meter on this wire should say this & if it doesn't, then you need to look at this."

The electrical problems have been going on ever sense the "fire video" when the main power wire on the starter touched the block. Something has got to be fried somewhere but what? Thats been a while back now. I'm @#$* frustrated with the electrical system. Heck, I'm ^#@ $^# ^*(@ $#% #%* %#* #**# frustrated with the car in general. Thats a LOT of "4 letter words".

I haven't even been in the garage & looked at the car in a couple weeks because when I look at it I no longer see a cool car I just see frustration, distain & apathy. Perhaps 7 months of being flat broke, all out busting my @$$ working on it with little to no reward has me burnt out.

I also found in an old Mid America Corette catalog (11C Pg 213, bottom right), a book called Corvette Troubleshooting. Item description: Not a "how to fix" manual; rather, a "what to fix & look for" reference when problems arise. Which sounds right up my alley but its nowhere to be found for sale on the net.

Any good electrical troubleshooting books out there that you guys can recommend? Preferably, something that reads like "this thing is doing this so go look at this & if its doing this then you need to fix this". From there, I can Chilton the removal & installation of anything.

 

Electrical problems can be troublesome to fix, especially if you don't have an electrical background. When you combine multiple problems, which may or may not be related to each other, it can be overwhelming.

My advice is to pick one circuit, such as the fuel tank level, and troubleshoot it. Before diving in with a meter, understand how the circuit is supposed to work by studying the electrical schematics. Also try and figure out ways to fully test the circuit. For example, with the fuel circuit, a cheap Radio Shack variable resistor installed in place of the tank sender can be used to test the fuel gauge and associated wiring (unplug the wire from the sender and jumper to the variable resistor and then to ground). Eventually, you will need to use a meter to determine voltage levels, resistance to ground, and perform voltage drop tests. Once this circuit is working correctly, move on to the next.

If you need additional assistance, or an understanding of how the individual circuits are supposed to work, I can help you with that. I also have a book on troubleshooting automotive electrical systems/problems. It is pretty basic and details how to use meters and test equipment. If you want to read through it, send me your address and I will have it Fed Exed.

Tim

 

With all your elect. problems maybe you have some water damage?
Near as I can tell 1 light works the other doesn't? I would start by checking the actuator then move to the relay, check hoses.
Good luck

 

So, if you had a factory wiring harness, you could then eliminate wiring as the source of the problem. They're a couple hundred bucks but at least you know you have the right wires for everything and it will match the wiring diagrams you have.

Just a thought.

cc

 

I still have my factory harness. The only modification I made to it was to cut the end off where it plugs into the back of the center gauges & wire it directly to the gauges. Just eliminated the floppy circuit board that I knew had bad connections. Thats it, I didn't fubar it. The system had multiple problems to begin with, I didn't just tear into working on it for the heck of it.

Here is one of the less expensive harnesses I've found $915 & (it says)it wont work with my car because I have power windows & power door locks.

http://www.zip-products.com/Zip/productr.asp?pf%5Fid=E%2D637&gift=False& 0=dept%2Easp%2Cdept%5Fid%3D2844%26menu%5 Fid%3D%26Tree%3D%2C68%2D82%20Corvette%20 Parts%20%26%20Accessories&1=dept%2Easp%2 Cdept%5Fid%3D2317%26menu%5Fid%3D%26Tree% 3D0%2C68%2D82%20Electrical%20System&2=de pt%2Easp%2Cdept%5Fid%3D462%26menu%5Fid%3 D%26Tree%3D1%2C68%2D82%20Wiring%20Harnes ses&3=dept%2Easp%2Cdept%5Fid%3D465%26men u%5Fid%3D%26Tree%3D2%2CDash%20Harness&HS LB=False&mscssid=00DF7D10543E34430BA9875 976BE7376

First, to me, its ridicules to pay this much money for a few wires. I mean come on, its just a little copper & plastic.

Second, its out of my price range so just short of somehow convincing all my video viewers to send me $1.00 each to pay for it, its just not going to happen.

 

You might look up Lectric Limited. They make almost everything electrical for classic cars and supply most of the Corvette parts suppliers.

I think you're learning the hard way that wiring Corvettes is not like wiring a steel bodied car. There is no such thing as a body ground on a Corvette.

And, if you don't use the original grounds, you actually cause more problems than you can fix. For instance, on a 68-76 the wipers are grounded through the chrome bezel which usually gets broken at the thinnest point. Once that happens you have intermittent wiper function or none at all if two broken pieces of the bezel are not touching.

If you ground the radio to the same ground as the wipers instead of using the original radio ground you stand a good chance of getting a pop through the speakers every time you turn the wipers on/off.

Not only that but tying grounds together differently than the way the factory did it creates the potential for intermittent failure due to the electrical connections for the original grounded device to backfeed the other added device.

I know it sounds goofy but in the case of the alarm system, the switches are all tied together such that any open door or the hood will complete the circuit and turn on the alarm. The positive feed is hot all the time waiting for a ground connection. Add to that the flasher in the system which intermittently breaks the circuit to create the honking horn of the alarm. Tying into that system could create all sorts of nightmares for you.

I realize you want to learn for yourself but you don't have a good base to start with. You car was messed up to begin with and you have no clue what it is supposed to look like when it works.

I suggest saving your money up and getting if fixed by a competent Corvette shop. Alternatively, you can try to locate a forum member in your area who might be willing to help you but if you keep re-wiring what was already messed up, I see no way to ever get a working model to use as a base in the future.

cc

 

Lectric has wiring diagram by year. It is well worth the $12. It shows the whole system with wire colors, switchs, relays, etc. It's liminated and 3' X 3' so it's easy to follow.
I'm with Robbinhod, fix 1 thing correctly and move to the next.
My 76 came with many temp fix's that would work on & off. I started at 1 spot and fixed correctly, no more masking tape and direct wire connections. I had a fuse link let go when the hot connection hit ground because of an incorrect wire connection.
You can use your 12V trouble light to get started. You are checking to see if have current, hopefully 12V, a weak light is current just not 12V. You will need a volt/ohm meter at some point, it makes checking wires and switches easier.
Say for power window; do you get anything at the motor? if not go to the switch, if not go to the relay, then fuse block. When you find power you've isolated the problem. Fix that problem and check. Most of your motor controlled devices, such as your windows, will have a switch, relay and fuse protection.
This is where that wiring diag. will be helpful to follow the path.
Good luck

 

Finally found somebody knowledgeable about vette electrical systems, on craigslist of all places. This guy used to own a 77 & has worked on many Vettes & numerous other cars, hes a retired tech for dealers & garages that did automotive electrical magic for $95 an hour. Needless to say with such credentials, I trust anything he says more than my own mother. (sorry no video appearance again)

I get him over here & he looked at stuff I never even though about looking at & found things in seconds that I don't know how I could have over looked in all this time. I started taking notes on what all needed worked on & parts I need to buy & before he left I had a whole page full of "stuff" I needed to do before he comes back & checks things out again after the changes & more in depth.

Ordinarily, a whole page of stuff would be a little disconcerting but in this situation, where I've simply had no direction to proceed, I'm totally thrilled to have a manageable list of things to do.

His current verdict is that I don't necessarily need a new harness where I could care less about stock. He concurs with me by verifying with multiple wiring diagrams (from you guys THANKS) that what little wiring Ive done for installing the new gauges is all in the right places (other than being a rats nest). That made me feel good.

A lot of what needs done is simple stuff, cleaning connections or just eliminating bad connectors, get some better tools to work on it & general parts to work on electrical stuff etc & then the biggest thing is that I need to drop the steering wheel to get the speedo / tach out so he can dig around in there where he thinks the back feeding phantom ground problem actually is. (I didn't touch anything in that area to cause it)

Several of the things that quit like signals lights appear to be just plain old bad luck. The reason it failed is because I touched it(no surprise), using it its last few clicks worth before death & the switches just need replaced, nothing to do with me or the harness. That made me feel good.

He also tried to isolate the problem of the original power wire not giving enough power to the distributor for a spark & that even made HIM scratch his head. That made me feel REALLY good!

He says that its got only a fraction less power than the wire I ran straight to the battery but when I turn the key it pretty much goes dead. Something I'd never have figured out on my own because that needed 2 people to even get that reading at that moment.

I don't want to get too excited here but I think I just got a glimpse of a flicker that just might have been the light at the end of the tunnel?

 

How long did it take him to quit laughing? Do you really think he is going to answer your phone call?

 

You will just have to take my word for it, but buy this tool. It is the ONLY tool you need to diagnose your electrical. They make several different models, I have one of their earlier ones. Best prices on ebay.

You can power up motors, starters, test not only power wires, but also grounds and all by yourself. Many, many more features. Will reach from front to back of car and even has a semi trailer attachment.

Best electrical tool I have EVER used, wish they had them 40 years ago, would have saved me a lot of aggrivation over the years.

 

You have a lot of things that aren't working. It is highly unlikely that all those guages, lights, horn etc. all went bad at the same time. The one thing that all those accessories need is a good ground. The fact that the radio worked then quit might be a sign that you have corrosion on the ground wire connection.

 

The guy that came over had one of these. It was a red one that hooked up to the battery & had a built in flash light & speaker. Looked like a real trick to solve problems. It was really easy for him to click the button & turn something on to make sure it worked before looking for why it didn't turn on like it should. That could save 1000 hours of hassle by its self.

I don't know much about car electrical stuff but know enough to know how much hassle this tool saved that guy & I'd certainly second a recommendation for anyone thinking about getting this tool.

 

80% of the electrical problems started the day of the electrical fire. Other problems started just by (normal)taking things apart & checking for the problem. A lot of this recent stuff has just been stuff failing after being used a few times because it hasn't been used for about 2 years. 1 of those years being out in the weather with bad seals & squirrels & mud dobbers living in the dash. Its 30 years old & been terribly neglected. Its understandable that things are going to fail when I move them a few times after sitting still & decaying for so long.

Horn works, needs new horns so it doesn't sound like a moped.

Signal lights work but the flasher is bad & needs replaced.

The center gauges all work, (currently assuming temp works because I haven't run enough to get it hot) just down to the fuel & he thinks thats reading opposite because of the wrong type of electric floaty thingamabob in the gas tank for that gauge. Just have to order a new one from Sunpro, done seen it on the web site when I was getting the gauges.

Radio works now, I had pulled a wire loose back inside the dash by accident (my bad) & thought that because the place I wired it up was hooked up that it should work. Turns out it was unhooked on back in there. Honest mistake that could have happened to anybody.

Tach doesn't work right, its still going crazy whether its hooked up to the distributor or not but its the one with the phantom ground going on & finding that should help other stuff. That guy said its possible the tach itself could be bad but wont know till he actually gets back in there.