Reading plugs-Pics
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 495
Likes: 1
From: Lubbock TX
Reading plugs-Pics
Im having a little trouble reading my plugs. Can you guys help me out to see if I have any problems and how to fix them. My engine is year one 350 with q jet and timing around 34 coming in around 2500. Sorry ifthe pics are a little big.
Im going to start with #2 and go clockwise to #1.
I forgot to mention that I had a choke/flooding problem but it was fixed and I have driven quite a bit since then.
#2-I think it looks alright
#4-About the same as 2
#6 this is where they start to change. Is this OK?
#8
#7
#5-Looks the worst. I guess is that oil and what would cause that?
#3
#1
Im going to start with #2 and go clockwise to #1.
I forgot to mention that I had a choke/flooding problem but it was fixed and I have driven quite a bit since then.
#2-I think it looks alright
#4-About the same as 2
#6 this is where they start to change. Is this OK?
#8
#7
#5-Looks the worst. I guess is that oil and what would cause that?
#3
#1
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 10,362
Likes: 5
From: San Diego - Deep Within The State of CONFUSION!
What's the age & condition of the motor? OEM, Old or has it been rebuilt? The plugs with the black on them do look like oil. Perform a leakdown test to find out if it's valve seals or rings. Does it smoke on deceleration? That would be valve seals. Same if there's a puff of smoke on startup after sitting. If it puffs smoke out when you get on it, that would be most likely rings. But a leakdown test would tell a lot... as well as a wet/dry compression reading test.
Also you have at least one cylinder there that looks like it has water in it. Perhaps you could examine #7 a bit or shoot us another shot of it.
Also you have at least one cylinder there that looks like it has water in it. Perhaps you could examine #7 a bit or shoot us another shot of it.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 495
Likes: 1
From: Lubbock TX
Engine is 1 year old without many miles (750). I dont have smoke on anything. It runs great...maybe a little rich at idle. No smoke on startup/decel. The plugs do look worse in the picture maybe it was the flash that made it look so wet.
Here is a little bit better shot of the #7 plug.
Any more suggestions,
Thanks for the help,
Sean
Here is a little bit better shot of the #7 plug.
Any more suggestions,
Thanks for the help,
Sean
Last edited by smon; Jan 17, 2009 at 04:53 PM.
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 17,665
Likes: 194
From: Who says "Nothing is impossible" ? I've been doing nothing for years.
The plugs should not be wet they should all be dry and sandy brown color. Is that reddish brown or is the camera putting a red tint on it ?
Also plug #3 bothers me, did you rub the electrode against something because any silver on the electrode is not good and could be an indication of detonation. Have your heard any pinging ?
Also plug #3 bothers me, did you rub the electrode against something because any silver on the electrode is not good and could be an indication of detonation. Have your heard any pinging ?
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 495
Likes: 1
From: Lubbock TX
None of the plugs are actually wet, I can wipe stuff off but its dry. I would say the plugs are a little reddish but the camera does make it look a little more than it actually is.
plug #3- That is anti sieze from touching the threads on the strap, but on the electrode I cant see any silver specs but there is some stuff on it around the very edge. The same thing on the #1 plug
Would detonation only be seen on the electrode or everywhere including porcelain? And why would detonation only happen in 2 cylinders?
Thanks,
Sean
plug #3- That is anti sieze from touching the threads on the strap, but on the electrode I cant see any silver specs but there is some stuff on it around the very edge. The same thing on the #1 plug
Would detonation only be seen on the electrode or everywhere including porcelain? And why would detonation only happen in 2 cylinders?
Thanks,
Sean
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 37,637
Likes: 3,114
From: Crossville TN
Your right-bank cylinders (1,3,5,7) are performing differently than the left-bank cylinders. There are two primary possibilities:
1. you have a split-plane intake manifold and one plane is running richer than the other;
2. you have a heat riser valve problem and the heat riser is stuck or not opening fully.
1. you have a split-plane intake manifold and one plane is running richer than the other;
2. you have a heat riser valve problem and the heat riser is stuck or not opening fully.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 495
Likes: 1
From: Lubbock TX
Your right-bank cylinders (1,3,5,7) are performing differently than the left-bank cylinders. There are two primary possibilities:
1. you have a split-plane intake manifold and one plane is running richer than the other;
2. you have a heat riser valve problem and the heat riser is stuck or not opening fully.
1. you have a split-plane intake manifold and one plane is running richer than the other;
2. you have a heat riser valve problem and the heat riser is stuck or not opening fully.
Running hooker headers/sidepipes, so no heat riser.
Im not really sure what to do here now. Im going to back off the timing a little just to be sure. I cant be positve about the pinging because I can barely hear anything with my sidepipes.
Sean
Last edited by smon; Jan 17, 2009 at 05:47 PM.
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Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 495
Likes: 1
From: Lubbock TX
Some fuel additives can cause your plugs to become a little reddish.
Check the wires, too.
Check the wires, too.
Wires should be fine unless there is a defect in one. They were new with my motor.
I couldnt find a magnifying glass so ill go pick one up today and check them out.
Sean
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 30,995
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From: Ontario
Just an observation that may not have any relevance. But I'll put it up in any case. Those Champion plugs have a 'very long' reach. The typical AC Delco plugs recommended for a 350 (R43-45T or TS) look much shorter. I use R45TS in my 1974 and they perform very well. But this may be just my old eyes!
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 17,665
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From: Who says "Nothing is impossible" ? I've been doing nothing for years.
Interesting, twice as many threads, make sure you are using the correct plugs that the manufacturer of the engine or the heads recommends.
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 30,995
Likes: 98
From: Ontario
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 495
Likes: 1
From: Lubbock TX
Remember that this is a crate engine and the sheet that came with it specifies RS12YC champion plug with a .035 gap. That is what you see in the pictures. This time around I went with an equivalent plug but higher quality (I think?)-autolite AP104. Maybe that is wrong but thats what the sheet shows. At least it is their fault if it causes damage.
I will call year one tomorrow and see what they say.
Still working on getting a magnifying glass.
Sean
I will call year one tomorrow and see what they say.
Still working on getting a magnifying glass.
Sean
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 30,995
Likes: 98
From: Ontario
Remember that this is a crate engine and the sheet that came with it specifies RS12YC champion plug with a .035 gap. That is what you see in the pictures. This time around I went with an equivalent plug but higher quality (I think?)-autolite AP104. Maybe that is wrong but thats what the sheet shows. At least it is their fault if it causes damage.
I will call year one tomorrow and see what they say.
Still working on getting a magnifying glass.
Sean
I will call year one tomorrow and see what they say.
Still working on getting a magnifying glass.
Sean
I was just making an observation to possibly be helpful. You have not given specs on your cylinder heads.
Even with a stock 350 there are those who are leery to use the R45TS (extended tip) rather than the R45T. And those champions look very long. But your engine builder is the expert. It certainly will not hurt to ask for their recommendations and send them the pics.
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 30,995
Likes: 98
From: Ontario
Remember that this is a crate engine and the sheet that came with it specifies RS12YC champion plug with a .035 gap. That is what you see in the pictures. This time around I went with an equivalent plug but higher quality (I think?)-autolite AP104. Maybe that is wrong but thats what the sheet shows. At least it is their fault if it causes damage.
I will call year one tomorrow and see what they say.
Still working on getting a magnifying glass.
Sean
I will call year one tomorrow and see what they say.
Still working on getting a magnifying glass.
Sean
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 495
Likes: 1
From: Lubbock TX
I didnt have any time today to get anything done here with school and junk. Ill give year one a call tomorrow but as for head specs and extra info, all I know is this:
http://www.yearone.com/serverfiles/f...ain2.asp?cat=Q
(This link would only take you to the front page. Click crate and it is the CT350PC1.)
The only other info I have is the dyno sheet and some info like oil weight, plug type, octane.
Just so I know, would detonation cause one side of plugs to look like they do and the other side different. Or do I have two problems possibly with a little detonation and something else with the dual plane? And how much do I need to drive on these new plugs to pull them and check them out?
Ill definitely give you guys an update tomorrow.
http://www.yearone.com/serverfiles/f...ain2.asp?cat=Q
(This link would only take you to the front page. Click crate and it is the CT350PC1.)
The only other info I have is the dyno sheet and some info like oil weight, plug type, octane.
Just so I know, would detonation cause one side of plugs to look like they do and the other side different. Or do I have two problems possibly with a little detonation and something else with the dual plane? And how much do I need to drive on these new plugs to pull them and check them out?
Ill definitely give you guys an update tomorrow.
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 17,665
Likes: 194
From: Who says "Nothing is impossible" ? I've been doing nothing for years.
I really don't think there is any detonation problems but you must make sure before going any further. Any specs of silver from aluminum is a red flag so you have to inspect them a little closer.
One side being darker than the other doesn't mean much and is nothing to worry about. You may have nothing wrong with the motor. Did you seat the rings on it though ?
One side being darker than the other doesn't mean much and is nothing to worry about. You may have nothing wrong with the motor. Did you seat the rings on it though ?
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 495
Likes: 1
From: Lubbock TX
Finally got a magnifying glass. I tried to take a couple pics but they dont look much better than the first ones. In the sunlight with the mag. glass I do see a little bit of aluminum specs only on the electrode. Most of them I dont see anything, but here is the worst.
#1 plug- this is the best picture I could get. You can see some shiny specs around the electrode. this one was definitely the worst.
I did seat the rings with a 250 mile break in. Year one told me only 50 miles, but I wanted to make sure.
Just called yearone and asked about the plugs. The lady told me RJ12YC not RS. These are the plugs that it was dyno'd on. Im gonna go pick some of these up and compare them to mine.
Thanks,
Sean
#1 plug- this is the best picture I could get. You can see some shiny specs around the electrode. this one was definitely the worst.
I did seat the rings with a 250 mile break in. Year one told me only 50 miles, but I wanted to make sure.
Just called yearone and asked about the plugs. The lady told me RJ12YC not RS. These are the plugs that it was dyno'd on. Im gonna go pick some of these up and compare them to mine.
Thanks,
Sean