I know I asked once,,,,but I have to ask again.

When I look at Zoop's site at the serpentine systems I see pictures that will all require a reverse rotation pump. When I look at Stewarts site...the only reverse pump I see is a couple of options for small blocks.

Are you SURE that you have a reverse rotation pump on it? Or have you routed belt differently to allow normal rotation? Because if you have, there is a good chance there is not enough *wrap* around the water pump and crank pulleys to eliminate belt slippage.

Just need to make sure that issue is out of the way...it has stumped many a car dude in the past.

JIM

 

Use the Prestone method. Get the Prestone Flush Kit which includes Tees, clamps, etc..and use a bottle of Prestone cleaner or Prestone Super Flush. Follow directions on the bottle. Open all your block drains when flushing. Only use the amount of antifreeze for your locale which , like me, is a very small amount to prevent freezing in the winter months. I have about 3 quarts of antifreeze in my 22 quart cooling system. The rest is distilled water with a bottle of Redlines Water Wetter.

 

Jim, the pump I purchased is supposed to be a CCW rotation pump. The pump is not shown on the web site in CCW. I have not changed the belt configuration of the serp drive system. I am not sure about the pump, the only way to verify is to remove the pump and pull the rear cover, which if it needs to be done its not a problem.

One thing to note is that the description of the pump on the box next to the part number written by hand are the letters CCW. Now that you ask the question as to the rotation of the pump and me looking at the box it sure seems odd that the letters CCW are hand written on the lable. The box has the part number being 41203 CCW (with CCW hand written) the 41203 is the BBC pump in CW rotation.

Now that I think on it a little while I am going to remove the pump tomorrow and pull the rear cover off.

I may look and see if I can locate a standard pump to try in CCW rotation from the local parts house.

Neal

 

Having the CCW on the box at all is comforting.....but odd that it wouldn't be a normal listed part number. I wonder if whatever impeller they used actually works well in the BBC pump? I dunno....just trying to eliminate the simple things.

I can't imagine there being that much trash in a relatively new build that would be obstructing flow. I'm leery of the cleaning solutions on old stuff because usually leaks come soon after from freeze plugs, gaskets etc once all the nice rust is washed away that was sealing things.

JIM

 

BTW, I bought a cheap rebuilt water pump at the parts store to use on my engine test stand for $15 plus $10 core.

JIM

 

I here what your saying but it looks like this thing may be coming out for a tear down anyway.

Every port I've looked into on this motor is clean including the old radiator.

But I'm at a lose here for a good reason for this thing to be running hot.


Neal

 

Gona sleep on it tonight,

Yawl have given me allot of ideas to work on for the next few days

thanks Neal

 

It is sounding like your motor is making too much heat.
3000 rpm is curious since you run solid lifters/rollers.
also the main jetting comes into play.

Have you had the lean/rich possibilities checked?
Also, what clearance are you setting your lifters?

Just wondering.

 

Wow, just realized your are running a serp system.

At what speed are you running your pump? 1:1 or underdrive.

Don't flush with the new alum rad in the mix. I wouldn't take the risk of plugging it.

 

I'm tunning with a wideband LM1 got the cruise set at 13.7 to 14.0

lifters are set at .022" per cam card.

Neal

 

I don't know the exact speed of the pump, I called Stewart and gave them the drive pulley size and Jack said it was good. Stewart does not like underdrive pulleys on the street but they also don't want the pump overdriven more than 10%.

Neal

 

I'm going to go through this thread and put together all the suggestions here and make a list for a check off for all to see. This will help me make sure I don't miss any thing and will allow everyone to see what all I have done in one post.

And again I want to thank everyone for your suggestions thus far, thay have helped allot.

Neal :thumbs

 

This is my list of things I’ve done and need to do, next on my list is to move the oil cooler to the rear of the car and install a fan, shroud and thermostat to control it. This should help with removing some hot air from the radiator and help with air flow through the radiator. I’m going to pull the stage IV pump and check rotation and install a stock pump and give it a try.
I’ve sealed the front of the car to make all air pass through the radiator, I stuffed pipe insulation in every hole I could and used foil back tape to hold it in place. After a drive on the hwy it blew a couple of pieces of tape and insulation out. I'll fix this and make sure the insulation stays in place. Must build up some pressure in the nose of the car to blow the insulation out. I have the hood off now to give me some room to work.

Things I’ve tried to improve cooling:
Dewitt radiator
Dual 11” Spal fans
Remove T-stat
Lower Hose
Remove filler neck at T-stat
Verify temps with IR gun
Check flow chart for Stage IV pump
Seal radiator to core support
Verify timing
Water/coolant mixture
Verify no air in system

Things I need to do to improve cooling:
Check pump rotation
Install stock pump
Try flow restrictors
Move oil cooler
Contact Stewart for verification on Stage IV pump
Reduce air tmep at radiator inlet
Radiator flush
Increase air flow through radiator
Check for leaking head gasket
Add cooling duct from front of car to engine bay

Neal

 

Dont know if you solved your issue yet, but try the following...
Likely if you have low gears 3:55 or steeper without an OD, you are heat soaking on the freeway or at higher speeds. My 71 442 with 3:73's had the same problem. The cure is to actually slow the speed of the water flow down through the radiator to give the heat time to transfer. Chances are the higher flow pump did nothing or worsened the problem. For the Olds, I used a Mondello custom pump with a special impeller design and tight tolerances internally that stopped the pump from cavitating at higher engine/cruise speeds and in addition underdrive pullies on the WP. I have a HUGE Be Cool Radiator with Dual Electrics and it was doing the same exact thing. The other huge help was 2 bottles of water wetter and almost zero antifreeze. It stays at 190 at any speed now.

 

Update: 30 degree centigrade temperatures last weekend - 10 miles of 4/5 mph traffic jam would normally be a major issue - still 180 degrees showing, (although cabin temps were like a furnace - the amount of heat passing under the dashboard once moving made my eyes water!) even later at 90 mph the temp remained the same. The stock viscous fan and shroud have been thoroughly sealed-in. I am still not convinced about the efficiency of twin electrical fans on an engine that has a 'marginal' cooling system - if the fans are mounted direct to the rear of the radiator surely they are only pulling cooling air through a maximum area of the circumference of the fans (which is perhaps less thyan 50% of the surface area?) - technically would they work better if mounted-up to some form of shroud (or plenum) spaced, say 3 or 4 inches back from the radiator so that (like the stock fan shrouds) cooling air is drawn through the whole radiator surface.

 

I don't think it would be a cooling improvement. Maybe the fans would work more efficiently when the vehicle is at low speed, but they would certainly act as an air flow restriction at higher speeds.

 

There are a lot of theories regarding electric fans and radiator core coverage. If we build a full coverage shroud 1/2 the people will say it blocks the air flow and the other 1/2 say it's the only way to go. The truth is you need only 70% core coverage and at least 2000 cfm to cool any motor. That's why we always use duals on C3's because the core is rectangle shaped and so is the dual fan package. If you tried to use a single 16" (circle) on a 18 x 27" core, you'd have less that enough coverage to do the job.

The spal duals have 12 rubber flapper valves to allow air to get through the fan shroud at highway speeds. But to prove a point to all the "full shroud blocks air" believers, we mounted a dual fans to both sides of a core. One pusher and one puller. When we ran the pusher the flaps on the puller did not open, which means the opening in the shroud was enough to handle the full 2780 cfm.

So I guess what i'm saying here is both are wrong. You don't need a full coverage shroud but full coverage isn't bad either.

 

Before your posting I would have the presumption that the best possible combination would have been a stock type shroud with a large single high cfm fan which is either thermostatic, variable speed (or even better a combination of both) so you have the best of both worlds i.e 'plenum' area behind radiator to draw air through more of the surface area - and the electric fan to reduce power loss and run quieter. I don't believe that such a fan with a high enough cfm rating with the correct diameter is readily available. Unfortunately I would also guess there can be no guarantee that any electric (or mechanical) fan will flow the advertised rating in any given application. Its interesting that you also use a 'pusher' fan too - does this mean that if used in tandem with 'puller fans' there is less chance of the 'pusher' fan effectively 'stalling' its air flow through the radiator core?

 

You misunderstood me. We only set up the pusher/puller on a bench to set how much it took to open the flaps. We don't offer pusher for anything, ever, and certainly on in tandem

 

No problem - and hers me thinking that you have found a new answer to an old question