EGR- do I need it?
Former Vendor
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 766
Likes: 3
From: Charlotte North Carolina 704-394-5150
"850 HC in my state is running too rich. The standard was 220 PPM HC."
"And as for these "untested engines". I think that you are mistaken or you would have heard about all of these new cars back then that were failing emissions testing. And the stickers on the cars that stated that it conformed to the federal standards were all wrong".
All I am saying is that for my 78 L-82 that I drive 500 miles per year, the whole emissions issue is really a non issue, as it is probably for a host of other folks with 25 year old cars.
I think that you misunderstood my comment about the late 70's to early 80's cars that when some people removed hardware at that time such as a cat, many vehicles could pass the emissions standard without it, as many found out. At that time, GM did not test every engine configuration to pass the emissions standard, many cars just got the hardware. The limit in my state for model year 1978 is 800 PPM HC, not 220 HC. A stock 78 L-82 could not pass 220 HC limit unless it was running on 3 cylinders (a joke!) with the L-82 cam with all the overlap at idle, no way.
I am totally for retaining all emissions equipment on modern cars, as stated previously and which I have done on my other 3 late model cars, just not on vintage cars that will run much better without all the poorly designed emissions equipment, limited mostly by technology limitations from 25 years ago. Agree to disagree?
"And as for these "untested engines". I think that you are mistaken or you would have heard about all of these new cars back then that were failing emissions testing. And the stickers on the cars that stated that it conformed to the federal standards were all wrong".
All I am saying is that for my 78 L-82 that I drive 500 miles per year, the whole emissions issue is really a non issue, as it is probably for a host of other folks with 25 year old cars.
I think that you misunderstood my comment about the late 70's to early 80's cars that when some people removed hardware at that time such as a cat, many vehicles could pass the emissions standard without it, as many found out. At that time, GM did not test every engine configuration to pass the emissions standard, many cars just got the hardware. The limit in my state for model year 1978 is 800 PPM HC, not 220 HC. A stock 78 L-82 could not pass 220 HC limit unless it was running on 3 cylinders (a joke!) with the L-82 cam with all the overlap at idle, no way.
I am totally for retaining all emissions equipment on modern cars, as stated previously and which I have done on my other 3 late model cars, just not on vintage cars that will run much better without all the poorly designed emissions equipment, limited mostly by technology limitations from 25 years ago. Agree to disagree?
IN MY OPINION..if I had it MY way...which I do not...I really care less if you have any or all of the smog components on your car...AS LONG AS the emissions do not exceed the limits that WERE once used by many states. California excluded...it is a world all its on in this regard.
Regardless if you only drive it a short distance yearly...it still should be tuned correctly for optimum emissions...and age of the vehicle should have nothing to do with it. BUT seeing how the LAW is written...the equipment should not be removed. Which I know many do and have done. I am not the EMISSIONS POLICE here. I do not care what anyone does with their car...but there should be some form of respect for the law(s) made to protect US all from the hazards of an overly abused way of thinking that "it doesn't matter".
I use my gas analyzer for making sure I get the best tune-up out of every Corvette I do. Sometimes the engines are crap and they should not be used because the only thing they do is "fog" for mosquitoes. If you get your engine to burn clean and no equipment is on it...then like I mentioned before...at least it is not ADDING to the problem of bad air. And with the new OBD-II systems...trying to trick or bypass emissions equipment can make it an expensive experiment and for what... a few more un-tapped horses?
So not be be insulting or condecending...I applaude you for not altering your newer cars. But seeing what some can get out of original engines..should make you wonder what you can try to get your emissions better if they need it at all...becasue 800PPM HC is high...if I saw that on my machine I would have to try something because all of that unburnt fuel or oil needs to be stopped or reduced in sme way.
Change is on its way...one day you may wake up and find a LAW has been passed that will make you pay for your "dirty emissions" or maybe not even be able to drive it until it goes through a strick inspection and passes. The "powers" that be, are on the way to change something...and with so few older classics on the road... they MAY think of these as "easy targets" and go after US becasue WE do not have a LOUD enough voice in DC. They have done it to "lacquer paint" in many states where it is illegal to shoot it. So people trying to restore their car back to factory standards are out of luck and have to use a system that is chosen for them. And that is only paint....on a few classic cars....but it caused a change...that effects the FEW who want it but cant have it. EYES WIDE SHUT!
"DUB"
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,445
Likes: 971
From: Tennessee/Rhode Island
After reading all of the posts after this one you posted...I am on the fence with argeeing or disagreeinig with you.
IN MY OPINION..if I had it MY way...which I do not...I really care less if you have any or all of the smog components on your car...AS LONG AS the emissions do not exceed the limits that WERE once used by many states. California excluded...it is a world all its on in this regard.
Regardless if you only drive it a short distance yearly...it still should be tuned correctly for optimum emissions...and age of the vehicle should have nothing to do with it. BUT seeing how the LAW is written...the equipment should not be removed. Which I know many do and have done. I am not the EMISSIONS POLICE here. I do not care what anyone does with their car...but there should be some form of respect for the law(s) made to protect US all from the hazards of an overly abused way of thinking that "it doesn't matter".
I use my gas analyzer for making sure I get the best tune-up out of every Corvette I do. Sometimes the engines are crap and they should not be used because the only thing they do is "fog" for mosquitoes. If you get your engine to burn clean and no equipment is on it...then like I mentioned before...at least it is not ADDING to the problem of bad air. And with the new OBD-II systems...trying to trick or bypass emissions equipment can make it an expensive experiment and for what... a few more un-tapped horses?
So not be be insulting or condecending...I applaude you for not altering your newer cars. But seeing what some can get out of original engines..should make you wonder what you can try to get your emissions better if they need it at all...becasue 800PPM HC is high...if I saw that on my machine I would have to try something because all of that unburnt fuel or oil needs to be stopped or reduced in sme way.
Change is on its way...one day you may wake up and find a LAW has been passed that will make you pay for your "dirty emissions" or maybe not even be able to drive it until it goes through a strick inspection and passes. The "powers" that be, are on the way to change something...and with so few older classics on the road... they MAY think of these as "easy targets" and go after US becasue WE do not have a LOUD enough voice in DC. They have done it to "lacquer paint" in many states where it is illegal to shoot it. So people trying to restore their car back to factory standards are out of luck and have to use a system that is chosen for them. And that is only paint....on a few classic cars....but it caused a change...that effects the FEW who want it but cant have it. EYES WIDE SHUT!
"DUB"
IN MY OPINION..if I had it MY way...which I do not...I really care less if you have any or all of the smog components on your car...AS LONG AS the emissions do not exceed the limits that WERE once used by many states. California excluded...it is a world all its on in this regard.
Regardless if you only drive it a short distance yearly...it still should be tuned correctly for optimum emissions...and age of the vehicle should have nothing to do with it. BUT seeing how the LAW is written...the equipment should not be removed. Which I know many do and have done. I am not the EMISSIONS POLICE here. I do not care what anyone does with their car...but there should be some form of respect for the law(s) made to protect US all from the hazards of an overly abused way of thinking that "it doesn't matter".
I use my gas analyzer for making sure I get the best tune-up out of every Corvette I do. Sometimes the engines are crap and they should not be used because the only thing they do is "fog" for mosquitoes. If you get your engine to burn clean and no equipment is on it...then like I mentioned before...at least it is not ADDING to the problem of bad air. And with the new OBD-II systems...trying to trick or bypass emissions equipment can make it an expensive experiment and for what... a few more un-tapped horses?
So not be be insulting or condecending...I applaude you for not altering your newer cars. But seeing what some can get out of original engines..should make you wonder what you can try to get your emissions better if they need it at all...becasue 800PPM HC is high...if I saw that on my machine I would have to try something because all of that unburnt fuel or oil needs to be stopped or reduced in sme way.
Change is on its way...one day you may wake up and find a LAW has been passed that will make you pay for your "dirty emissions" or maybe not even be able to drive it until it goes through a strick inspection and passes. The "powers" that be, are on the way to change something...and with so few older classics on the road... they MAY think of these as "easy targets" and go after US becasue WE do not have a LOUD enough voice in DC. They have done it to "lacquer paint" in many states where it is illegal to shoot it. So people trying to restore their car back to factory standards are out of luck and have to use a system that is chosen for them. And that is only paint....on a few classic cars....but it caused a change...that effects the FEW who want it but cant have it. EYES WIDE SHUT!
"DUB"
Former Vendor
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 766
Likes: 3
From: Charlotte North Carolina 704-394-5150
Good points! I have not had the 78 on exhaust analyzer for some time now and by the way, my guess it is much less than 800 PPM HC currently since everything is up to date and checked/adjusted annually based on the old sniffer and years of smelling pre 75 car's exhaust, but I will admit you have peaked my interest in trying to get the emissions as low as possible WITHOUT any emissions equipment. That I will do so I guess all this bantering back and forth hasn't been fruitless! My guess is that it will be quite the challenge mostly due to the 180 degree run temperature. I know that the 78/79 stock L-82's ran 225+ temperature primarily to reduce emissions. Running 45-50 degrees less temperature would be a challenge even with the OEM cat and AIR pump but let's see what I can come up with.
I truely hope that your gas readings go well...I really do. And the fact that it runs cooler...which I agree...can be the "conflict in interst"...where you on one hand want it to run coller...but on the other hand are now intrigued by seeing how well it performs on the gas analyzer....where these cooler running temps can effect the outcome...the "caught between a rock and a hard place".
Once again..not meaning to be condecending...but I am truely IMPRESSED that you are at least looking into it...it speaks volumes about your character. Glad that we discussed this as adults...it was a pleasure...and I hope it all goes well. PLEASE let us know what you hahve found out...maybe it will inspire others to look into it also...because the benefit is cleaner air and properly performing engines.
"DUB"
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,445
Likes: 971
From: Tennessee/Rhode Island
I can say that this post has made me appreciate that ther are still some people who are willing to give it their best....without resulting in name calling and insults.
I truely hope that your gas readings go well...I really do. And the fact that it runs cooler...which I agree...can be the "conflict in interst"...where you on one hand want it to run coller...but on the other hand are now intrigued by seeing how well it performs on the gas analyzer....where these cooler running temps can effect the outcome...the "caught between a rock and a hard place".
Once again..not meaning to be condecending...but I am truely IMPRESSED that you are at least looking into it...it speaks volumes about your character. Glad that we discussed this as adults...it was a pleasure...and I hope it all goes well. PLEASE let us know what you hahve found out...maybe it will inspire others to look into it also...because the benefit is cleaner air and properly performing engines.
"DUB"
I truely hope that your gas readings go well...I really do. And the fact that it runs cooler...which I agree...can be the "conflict in interst"...where you on one hand want it to run coller...but on the other hand are now intrigued by seeing how well it performs on the gas analyzer....where these cooler running temps can effect the outcome...the "caught between a rock and a hard place".
Once again..not meaning to be condecending...but I am truely IMPRESSED that you are at least looking into it...it speaks volumes about your character. Glad that we discussed this as adults...it was a pleasure...and I hope it all goes well. PLEASE let us know what you hahve found out...maybe it will inspire others to look into it also...because the benefit is cleaner air and properly performing engines.
"DUB"
Thanx for the kind words! I truly appreciate your kind words! I too finding it quite annoying when in the past some folks stoop to name calling and insults when you do not agree with their point of view and especially irridating when someone cleary is misinformed about various topics and is not open to looking at an issue from a different perspective-heaven forbid they may be WRONG! I clearly don't know everything about C3 vettes but considering I have owned my car for 26 years and have solely repaired it and upgraded components consistently over that time, reading everything I can along the way, I sometimes can get very annoyed by comments from novices. Reading your profile made me immediately rethink our conversation early on. Thanx for the advice!
Former Vendor
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 766
Likes: 3
From: Charlotte North Carolina 704-394-5150
jb78-L82,
I myself DO NOT know everything about all models of the Corvettes also. Regardless of the year model. Doing this as long as I have I still learn something...maybe not as much in the beginning of my career...but these cars teach me something different quite often.
It is ALWAYS a challenge to get these older classics running right with good emissions due to never knowing what has been done on them by someone else and having to back-track so much and then start again to FINALLY get the end result being a car that...hopefully...is running at its best along with good emission results.
You have the one benefit...you KNOW what has done to your car for a long time now and as least have the benefit of not having "BUBBA" working on it and messing it all up.
It has been a pleasure posting with you and I hope when you test your car ...you are happily surprised.
"DUB"
I myself DO NOT know everything about all models of the Corvettes also. Regardless of the year model. Doing this as long as I have I still learn something...maybe not as much in the beginning of my career...but these cars teach me something different quite often.
It is ALWAYS a challenge to get these older classics running right with good emissions due to never knowing what has been done on them by someone else and having to back-track so much and then start again to FINALLY get the end result being a car that...hopefully...is running at its best along with good emission results.
You have the one benefit...you KNOW what has done to your car for a long time now and as least have the benefit of not having "BUBBA" working on it and messing it all up.
It has been a pleasure posting with you and I hope when you test your car ...you are happily surprised.
"DUB"
