Help With Valve Springs
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,558
Likes: 4
From: Oakland California
Help With Valve Springs
I'm looking into rebuilding the cylinder heads on my 78 Camaro, I know it's not the vette, but I need help figuring out what I need to do to install this spring kit on the heads:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SU...0/?image=large
Will there be any machining required on the heads, if so how much should I expect to pay?
Can anybody explain to me how the Viton valve stem seals are installed, do they go over the stock o-ring seal on the valve?
I bought a 350 engine a while back with 30,XXX miles and want to put it together and am using this spring kit because I don't know the lift on the cam, the previous owner said it was in the low .500 so I think this kit will be perfect. I tried asking these question to the Summitracing tech people, but got no reply. I want to install these things myself so I can learn.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SU...0/?image=large
Will there be any machining required on the heads, if so how much should I expect to pay?
Can anybody explain to me how the Viton valve stem seals are installed, do they go over the stock o-ring seal on the valve?
I bought a 350 engine a while back with 30,XXX miles and want to put it together and am using this spring kit because I don't know the lift on the cam, the previous owner said it was in the low .500 so I think this kit will be perfect. I tried asking these question to the Summitracing tech people, but got no reply. I want to install these things myself so I can learn.
Former Vendor
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 766
Likes: 3
From: Charlotte North Carolina 704-394-5150
I need to know what level of mechanical knowledge do you have and the access to tools to do this job? You are getting into an area that is not hard to do...so to speak...but with out the proper tools...you are fighting an uphill battle.
AT 30,xxx miles on the engine...why are you changing the valve springs????
Are you doing this with the heads still on the engine?????
Have you already removed anything to start this process?????
Also remember...that just replacing the valve springs and seals...with the heads on the engine...will not let you know the condition of wear on the stem of your valves and if your valve guides are bad....which replacing the valve guides should be preformed by a good machine shop.
"DUB"
AT 30,xxx miles on the engine...why are you changing the valve springs????
Are you doing this with the heads still on the engine?????
Have you already removed anything to start this process?????
Also remember...that just replacing the valve springs and seals...with the heads on the engine...will not let you know the condition of wear on the stem of your valves and if your valve guides are bad....which replacing the valve guides should be preformed by a good machine shop.
"DUB"
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,558
Likes: 4
From: Oakland California
I need to know what level of mechanical knowledge do you have and the access to tools to do this job? You are getting into an area that is not hard to do...so to speak...but with out the proper tools...you are fighting an uphill battle.
AT 30,xxx miles on the engine...why are you changing the valve springs????
Are you doing this with the heads still on the engine?????
Have you already removed anything to start this process?????
Also remember...that just replacing the valve springs and seals...with the heads on the engine...will not let you know the condition of wear on the stem of your valves and if your valve guides are bad....which replacing the valve guides should be preformed by a good machine shop.
"DUB"
AT 30,xxx miles on the engine...why are you changing the valve springs????
Are you doing this with the heads still on the engine?????
Have you already removed anything to start this process?????
Also remember...that just replacing the valve springs and seals...with the heads on the engine...will not let you know the condition of wear on the stem of your valves and if your valve guides are bad....which replacing the valve guides should be preformed by a good machine shop.
"DUB"
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,291
Likes: 493
From: Salmon Arm, BC
Yes that spring kit will drop right in......no machining required
The seals will just push fit on the valve guide, and if you have the little o ring seals just pitch them in the trash....not required with this type of valve seal
The seals will just push fit on the valve guide, and if you have the little o ring seals just pitch them in the trash....not required with this type of valve seal
Last edited by OMF; Oct 29, 2009 at 01:24 AM.
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,558
Likes: 4
From: Oakland California
The people over at summitracing told me that this spring kit needs .530 valve guides for the viton seals, does anybody know the stock guide diameter on small block chevy heads? If necessary, how much should I expect to pay for the installation of the valve guides?
Last edited by jordan89; Oct 30, 2009 at 12:30 AM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 7,739
Likes: 630
From: Unreconstructed, South Carolina
Recently changed seals in stock early 70's iron sbc heads. Just for my own info I quickly measured a coupla guides. They had Not been cut and OD measured about .560"-.570". I replaced stock O-rings with sealed power p/n mv-1233c and added drop on umbrella p/n mv-1598c. I used stock springs... but 2 good drop-in springs for you to consider are pioneer rv-943x and rv-1943x. If you're at about 500 lift then rv-943x good for you ... aka "Z-28" spring though it actually has nothing to do with a Z28. Best advice I can offer here is that you should measure lift before you proceed further ... first KNOW what you have.
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,558
Likes: 4
From: Oakland California
Are the viton stem seals go pushed down all the way to the valve guide, or how are they properly installed? Does anybody have any pictures if the seals installed? Also are they suppose to fit on there very tight?
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 12,142
Likes: 54
From: Taylor Michigan
4726 guide tool
The seals in the kit other than the 'O' ring seals will not fit over his guide without using the 4726 guide cutter that is shown in the link with the spring kit. His stock unmachined guide is around 570 i believe and it needs to be cut to 530 with this $40 buck tool....
it will also cut the guides length shorter to make sure there will not be any retainer to guide interference with a good performance camshaft.....a very important procedure that I feel contributes to worn cam lobe problems more than the oil used.......but what do I know, ..right......
it will also cut the guides length shorter to make sure there will not be any retainer to guide interference with a good performance camshaft.....a very important procedure that I feel contributes to worn cam lobe problems more than the oil used.......but what do I know, ..right......
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Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,558
Likes: 4
From: Oakland California
I got the spring kit today and tried to see if they would fit over the stock guides and stopped when I saw that if I pressed them all the way down the seals would get stretched out. So would I have to install new .530 guides, or do I just have to cut/shorten the existing valve guides, with the $40 cutting tool, and drop the new seals in?
Last edited by jordan89; Oct 30, 2009 at 08:15 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 7,739
Likes: 630
From: Unreconstructed, South Carolina
I got the spring kit today and tried to see if they would fit over the stock guides and stopped when I saw that if I pressed them all the way down the seals would get stretched out. So would I have to install new .530 guides, or do I just have to cut/shorten the existing valve guides, with the $40 cutting tool, and drop the new seals in?
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,558
Likes: 4
From: Oakland California
Again ... first measure what you have. Because of the expense involved with modifying OE guides ... Suggest you shelve/sell the kit's viton seals. Suggest you instead install seals as I did above ... both sets probably total about $10 USD at your local parts store and they slip on with no mods. And did I mention? ... Again ... first measure what you have.
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,558
Likes: 4
From: Oakland California
Recently changed seals in stock early 70's iron sbc heads. Just for my own info I quickly measured a coupla guides. They had Not been cut and OD measured about .560"-.570". I replaced stock O-rings with sealed power p/n mv-1233c and added drop on umbrella p/n mv-1598c. I used stock springs... but 2 good drop-in springs for you to consider are pioneer rv-943x and rv-1943x. If you're at about 500 lift then rv-943x good for you ... aka "Z-28" spring though it actually has nothing to do with a Z28. Best advice I can offer here is that you should measure lift before you proceed further ... first KNOW what you have.
And these for mv-1598c: http://shop.oreillyauto.com/ProductD...tNumber=MV1598
So the 1233 part are o-rings, and the 1598c are umbrellas, right? And there won't be any machining needed if I use them with the summitracing spring kit right?
Last edited by jordan89; Oct 31, 2009 at 12:03 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 7,739
Likes: 630
From: Unreconstructed, South Carolina
are these the ones you have for mv-1233c: http://shop.oreillyauto.com/productd...tnumber=mv1233yes
and these for mv-1598c: http://shop.oreillyauto.com/productd...tnumber=mv1598yes
the "c" suffix indicates a box of 16 & price may be less than without "c"
so the 1233 part are o-rings YES, and the 1598c are umbrellas, right? YES and there won't be any machining needed if i use them with the summitracing spring kit right? PROBABLY ... BUT ... you must measure first ... A $20 caliper will work
and these for mv-1598c: http://shop.oreillyauto.com/productd...tnumber=mv1598yes
the "c" suffix indicates a box of 16 & price may be less than without "c"
so the 1233 part are o-rings YES, and the 1598c are umbrellas, right? YES and there won't be any machining needed if i use them with the summitracing spring kit right? PROBABLY ... BUT ... you must measure first ... A $20 caliper will work
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 7,739
Likes: 630
From: Unreconstructed, South Carolina
110% ... sadly too often overlooked ... this is very important & there absolutely must be no interference.
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,558
Likes: 4
From: Oakland California
measure first!!!!! Just for you ... just for you I just measured an MV-1598 umbrella & it's about .150" thick at top ... so you need a "gap" at least .150" between top of guide & bottom of retainer when valve is FULLY OPEN ... so I suggest YOU go out & get yourself something halfway decent to measure with & you measure your stuff. If you don't have enough "gap" you'll quickly have problems that will Not fix themselves ... Guessing on this sort of thing is foolish. Also, I don't give a flip what dimensions are quoted online at your parts store link ... I measured ... it's about .150" thick ... I KNOW ... & you're welcome to that info.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 7,739
Likes: 630
From: Unreconstructed, South Carolina
You have a problem with broke spring ... you Must find why it broke before you proceed ... you Must first eliminate likelihood of inadequate clearance. Measure. If you cannot do this you Must get expert local help.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,691
Likes: 12
From: columbus oh
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,558
Likes: 4
From: Oakland California
I have to use the stock shroud since the kit didn't come with them. I have some o-ring valve stem seals that I got from a Mr.Gasket gasket set that I ordered, I'm going to do some measuring to see what works.
