engine won't fire...think I checked everything
Racer
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 428
Likes: 0
1982 -
When you worked or opened the throttle, do you see a squirt of fuel from the carburetor accelerator pump?
While cranking the engine did you loosen the dist. hold down bolt enough to be able to move to back and forth to try to get it to start?
When you worked or opened the throttle, do you see a squirt of fuel from the carburetor accelerator pump?
While cranking the engine did you loosen the dist. hold down bolt enough to be able to move to back and forth to try to get it to start?
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,938
Likes: 2
From: Arkansas
1. I retimed it, and made 100% sure it was set on compression and TDC firing on cylinder 1
2. I do know the coil is firing, because we seen the sparks when I had the distributor cover off and cycling it.
3. It's not getting in any fuel to the carb yet, could it be the mech pump needs to be primed or what not? I put some fuel in the fuel bowl and it actually ran for a few seconds on it's own.
4. My battery has to be shot, it's a few years old and the car has been sitting for a year for sure. I get one good turn to start, when it dies it has a slow R R R R... sound. I don't think it's enough juice to fire it.
I sent my wife to the auto parts store a second ago to get a new battery, it couldn't hurt.
I need to get the new battery on it and figure out why it's not getting any fuel to the carb....plus my choke is all the way close and the shop has warmed up to about 60 degrees....that could have an effect on it too. I need to set it partially open.
I did leave the distributor loose enough to move it back and forth, but the battery gives out before I can even try it.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,938
Likes: 2
From: Arkansas
Ok guys, I'm getting close, new battery, double checked plug routing and changed the plugs it's trying to "start" now but I threw a huge back-fire through the carburator...about a 6 inch flame.
Does this means I'm 180 degrees out?
Does this means I'm 180 degrees out?
Racer
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 380
Likes: 0
From: Glendale AZ
Try advancing it by a bit and see if it improves it.
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,255
Likes: 7
From: Coralville Iowa
You said you set the distributor in when you felt the compression stroke while your wife was bumping it. Was your intake valve for #1 closed and piston at top dead center? Pull your valve cover and check. Both valves should be closed on the compression stroke. I think you are way out of time possibly 180. If you are getting large backfires through the carb your intake is open on the compression stroke. With a dribble (like a 1/2 of a shot glass) of gas through the carb you should get 2 to 3 seconds of smooth running if timing is set right.
Last edited by highschool67; Dec 5, 2009 at 09:49 PM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,486
Likes: 71
From: Elkhart Lake, Wisconsin
You said you set the distributor in when you felt the compression stroke while your wife was bumping it. Was your intake valve for #1 closed and piston at top dead center? Pull your valve cover and check. Both valves should be closed on the compression stroke. I think you are way out of time possibly 180. If you are getting large backfires through the carb your intake is open on the compression stroke. With a dribble (like a 1/2 of a shot glass) of gas through the carb you should get 2 to 3 seconds of smooth running if timing is set right.
You can't set the timing by just when you feel a whoosh of air, you need to confirm TDC on number 1 and then set the dist accordingly.
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Racer
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 428
Likes: 0
A backfire thru the carb means the intake valve is still open, try to turn the distributor to get the spark to fire a little later or retarded.
With cylinder number 1 on the compression stroke (TDC), is the rotor pointing towards number 1 on the dist. and that plug wire is routed to cylinder #1 cap? Yea, ask me how I know that can happen.
With cylinder number 1 on the compression stroke (TDC), is the rotor pointing towards number 1 on the dist. and that plug wire is routed to cylinder #1 cap? Yea, ask me how I know that can happen.
Pro
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 593
Likes: 0
From: London England
It ran for a little while and
I really think my timing skills suck.....I pulled a msd ignition set-up off the 350 my 76 Camaro to trade, I didn't want to pull the distributor but the guy wanted it. I installed a new HEI unit in it and can't get it to start either. I thought if I put the distributor in the same spot as the old one and it would be ok. Car ran fine until I messed with it.
I really think my timing skills suck.....I pulled a msd ignition set-up off the 350 my 76 Camaro to trade, I didn't want to pull the distributor but the guy wanted it. I installed a new HEI unit in it and can't get it to start either. I thought if I put the distributor in the same spot as the old one and it would be ok. Car ran fine until I messed with it.
So I installed a carb intake back on the engine along with a fairly new Holley street avenger 570 carb. I also put a mech fuel pump back on the block and tightened everything down. I also put on a new vacuum advanced distributor.
I then re-set the timing like described above.....same problems, turns over but won't fire.
I then re-set the timing like described above.....same problems, turns over but won't fire.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,938
Likes: 2
From: Arkansas
That's how I have it, is it not supposed to be this way or am I misreading your post?
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2001
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Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,938
Likes: 2
From: Arkansas
Ok, I just verified that it is firing on TDC, both valves on # 1 closed.
Checked my plugs wires again to make sure they are on the HEI in the correct firing order, plugs are firing and the carb is getting good healthy squirts of fuel now.
It's trying to start, still backfiring a bit.....I changed the plugs but the oil smells a little "gassy". I think this is the reminents of when I had the TPI on it and it was putting more fuel than it needed to and fouling plugs.
I know the negative effect of gas in the oil (washed cylinders ect) but will this cause an engine not to fire? I need to change the oil, but want to find out before I do. My oil is still clean and practically unused because I changed it twice before pulling off the TPI.
My last resort is a compression check to make sure all the cylinders have good compression...I did that a while back and all of them were holding good pressure.
Checked my plugs wires again to make sure they are on the HEI in the correct firing order, plugs are firing and the carb is getting good healthy squirts of fuel now.
It's trying to start, still backfiring a bit.....I changed the plugs but the oil smells a little "gassy". I think this is the reminents of when I had the TPI on it and it was putting more fuel than it needed to and fouling plugs.
I know the negative effect of gas in the oil (washed cylinders ect) but will this cause an engine not to fire? I need to change the oil, but want to find out before I do. My oil is still clean and practically unused because I changed it twice before pulling off the TPI.
My last resort is a compression check to make sure all the cylinders have good compression...I did that a while back and all of them were holding good pressure.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,938
Likes: 2
From: Arkansas
Advanced
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 91
Likes: 0
From: Sandy Springs, Georgia
Dude ,
You've been through a lot with this thing already, I am sure it is taking a toll on you. Just try one thing for me please. Disconnect the wire that is 12 volts hot going to the distributor. Take another wire and hook it from the hot lead on the back of the alternator . Get a crimp connector that fits into the spade connector on the distributor and get an alligator clip for the other end that you will put on the post on the back of the alternator.
This way you damn well know you have 12 volts getting to the distributor while you are cranking it and you will have 12 volts feeding it when it starts. I am thinking that since you do have fuel. You obviously spent a lot of time making sure the timing is correct. The rotor is properly phased . The valves are closing and you do have compression.
The reason I want you to try hot wiring is because there could be a problem with your ignition switch and wiring. This way you will have by passed all of it. If it starts great. If it doesn't make any difference at least you ruled out your ignition switch and the wiring to the distributor.
This should take you less than 10 minutes to accomplish. Good Luck to You , Joe
You've been through a lot with this thing already, I am sure it is taking a toll on you. Just try one thing for me please. Disconnect the wire that is 12 volts hot going to the distributor. Take another wire and hook it from the hot lead on the back of the alternator . Get a crimp connector that fits into the spade connector on the distributor and get an alligator clip for the other end that you will put on the post on the back of the alternator.
This way you damn well know you have 12 volts getting to the distributor while you are cranking it and you will have 12 volts feeding it when it starts. I am thinking that since you do have fuel. You obviously spent a lot of time making sure the timing is correct. The rotor is properly phased . The valves are closing and you do have compression.
The reason I want you to try hot wiring is because there could be a problem with your ignition switch and wiring. This way you will have by passed all of it. If it starts great. If it doesn't make any difference at least you ruled out your ignition switch and the wiring to the distributor.
This should take you less than 10 minutes to accomplish. Good Luck to You , Joe
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,938
Likes: 2
From: Arkansas
Dude ,
You've been through a lot with this thing already, I am sure it is taking a toll on you. Just try one thing for me please. Disconnect the wire that is 12 volts hot going to the distributor. Take another wire and hook it from the hot lead on the back of the alternator . Get a crimp connector that fits into the spade connector on the distributor and get an alligator clip for the other end that you will put on the post on the back of the alternator.
This way you damn well know you have 12 volts getting to the distributor while you are cranking it and you will have 12 volts feeding it when it starts. I am thinking that since you do have fuel. You obviously spent a lot of time making sure the timing is correct. The rotor is properly phased . The valves are closing and you do have compression.
The reason I want you to try hot wiring is because there could be a problem with your ignition switch and wiring. This way you will have by passed all of it. If it starts great. If it doesn't make any difference at least you ruled out your ignition switch and the wiring to the distributor.
This should take you less than 10 minutes to accomplish. Good Luck to You , Joe
You've been through a lot with this thing already, I am sure it is taking a toll on you. Just try one thing for me please. Disconnect the wire that is 12 volts hot going to the distributor. Take another wire and hook it from the hot lead on the back of the alternator . Get a crimp connector that fits into the spade connector on the distributor and get an alligator clip for the other end that you will put on the post on the back of the alternator.
This way you damn well know you have 12 volts getting to the distributor while you are cranking it and you will have 12 volts feeding it when it starts. I am thinking that since you do have fuel. You obviously spent a lot of time making sure the timing is correct. The rotor is properly phased . The valves are closing and you do have compression.
The reason I want you to try hot wiring is because there could be a problem with your ignition switch and wiring. This way you will have by passed all of it. If it starts great. If it doesn't make any difference at least you ruled out your ignition switch and the wiring to the distributor.
This should take you less than 10 minutes to accomplish. Good Luck to You , Joe
Yes, it has worn me down screwing with it. I'll go ahead and try this, it it doesn't work I'll leave this alone until spring. I think there may be something going on internally because there is no reason why it shouldn't have fired up yet.
I'm wanting to get my camaro in my shop to do a 5.3 fuel injection swap....if it turns out ok I may do the same to this. I'm doing a frame swap this summer / fall on this car anyway....would be a good time swap engines too. Honestly I have too many pans in the fire
I'm goign to treat my buddies from work a steak dinner thursday night to get them to come over and help me push this out to get it under my carport....heck of a lot easier than what I'm doing now...and less expensive.