Re-Stamping Original Engine Numbers?
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 37,637
Likes: 3,118
From: Crossville TN
Well, I think the reason is that the identification numbers on the engine block, the transmission case, and the VIN on the body are considered to be identifying features for the vehicle. Windshields, accessories, etc. have individual part numbers and date codes, but they aren't serialized to that specific vehicle like the VIN, tranny and block I.D.'s.
Thus, folks deem that if those items have been changed/falsified/restamped, that car may not be what you think you are buying. As a result, vehicles with unmolested I.D. tags are perceived to be worth more than those that don't have them. Folks of "ill repute" are restamping things just so that they can claim originality and charge more for the car...even though it isn't the 'real deal'. That is fraud...pure and simple...faking something so that you can bilk money dishonestly is "fraud". Is it legal? Well, that's a gray area; but it is certainly unethical. And, when done with intent to get more money, it is illegal [proving that in court may be 'iffy'].
Anyway, that's the reason for the concern. If original/unmolested tags didn't yield more value on these cars, no one would care.
Thus, folks deem that if those items have been changed/falsified/restamped, that car may not be what you think you are buying. As a result, vehicles with unmolested I.D. tags are perceived to be worth more than those that don't have them. Folks of "ill repute" are restamping things just so that they can claim originality and charge more for the car...even though it isn't the 'real deal'. That is fraud...pure and simple...faking something so that you can bilk money dishonestly is "fraud". Is it legal? Well, that's a gray area; but it is certainly unethical. And, when done with intent to get more money, it is illegal [proving that in court may be 'iffy'].
Anyway, that's the reason for the concern. If original/unmolested tags didn't yield more value on these cars, no one would care.
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 31,283
Likes: 4,373
From: Westminster Maryland
Folks,
In NCRS Flight Judging doesn't this Engine Block Cylinder Case still receive:
350 points for normally configured casting number and case configuration.
175 points for correctly configured casting date with-in 6 months prior to car build date.
It loses:
25 points for missing assembly stamping.
25 points for missing VIN derivative.
38 for missing normal factory production machining (broach) marks.
IF the lighter doesn't work you lose 25 points.
IF the radio doesn't work you lose 25 points.
IF the fan belts are noisy you lose 25 points.
IF the headlights don't open you lose 25 points.
I don't really see how the NCRS could down play the pad and stamped information any more.
Regards
Alan
In NCRS Flight Judging doesn't this Engine Block Cylinder Case still receive:
350 points for normally configured casting number and case configuration.
175 points for correctly configured casting date with-in 6 months prior to car build date.
It loses:
25 points for missing assembly stamping.
25 points for missing VIN derivative.
38 for missing normal factory production machining (broach) marks.
IF the lighter doesn't work you lose 25 points.
IF the radio doesn't work you lose 25 points.
IF the fan belts are noisy you lose 25 points.
IF the headlights don't open you lose 25 points.
I don't really see how the NCRS could down play the pad and stamped information any more.
Regards
Alan
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 779
Likes: 0
From: San Bruno California
This same thing happen to me. You would think the engine builder would know the importants of a matching number. He milled the numbers off. Hindsight, should have put in writing that he NOT mill the numbers off. Nothing I can do now but enjoy it. I had him restamped it. Got slammed too on the forum with my questions. It is what it is.
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,892
Likes: 42
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,458
Likes: 331
From: Indy Indiana
Folks,
In NCRS Flight Judging doesn't this Engine Block Cylinder Case still receive:
350 points for normally configured casting number and case configuration.
175 points for correctly configured casting date with-in 6 months prior to car build date.
It loses:
25 points for missing assembly stamping.
25 points for missing VIN derivative.
38 for missing normal factory production machining (broach) marks.
IF the lighter doesn't work you lose 25 points.
IF the radio doesn't work you lose 25 points.
IF the fan belts are noisy you lose 25 points.
IF the headlights don't open you lose 25 points.
I don't really see how the NCRS could down play the pad and stamped information any more.
Regards
Alan
In NCRS Flight Judging doesn't this Engine Block Cylinder Case still receive:
350 points for normally configured casting number and case configuration.
175 points for correctly configured casting date with-in 6 months prior to car build date.
It loses:
25 points for missing assembly stamping.
25 points for missing VIN derivative.
38 for missing normal factory production machining (broach) marks.
IF the lighter doesn't work you lose 25 points.
IF the radio doesn't work you lose 25 points.
IF the fan belts are noisy you lose 25 points.
IF the headlights don't open you lose 25 points.
I don't really see how the NCRS could down play the pad and stamped information any more.
Regards
Alan
only in resale does the issue come out. A buyer can live with out a lighter, squeakey fan belts, etc.. but if there is no vin derivitive on the pad, then there is no sale.. granted it is not a big points hit at judging, but it is a big money hit at sale time.
1st Gear
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Just re stamp it, its done way more then anyone will admit. Shop in Santa Ana Ca that has the stamps and they do about 8-12 a month. Its $179 and the do the research to make sure your casting codes are correct but im guessing for the right amount of money they will turn a ford into a chevy. Nobody wants to admit this is being done but I worked at a shop that sold to Major auction houses that did it with most all cars but atleast they did verify casting codes, once a new owner gets it he will swear its numbers matching and the problem is gone once again.
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Administrator
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 53,986
Likes: 6,212
From: About 1100 miles from where I call home.
Just re stamp it, its done way more then anyone will admit. Shop in Santa Ana Ca that has the stamps and they do about 8-12 a month. Its $179 and the do the research to make sure your casting codes are correct but im guessing for the right amount of money they will turn a ford into a chevy. Nobody wants to admit this is being done but I worked at a shop that sold to Major auction houses that did it with most all cars but atleast they did verify casting codes, once a new owner gets it he will swear its numbers matching and the problem is gone once again.
