YOU can NOT solve this problem -80 model
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,666
Likes: 1
From: Where it's always hot as Hell-South Louisiana.
St. Jude Donor '07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13
YOU can NOT solve this problem -80 model
First off, even I havent been able to solve this mystery. Things I HAVE DONE so far to correct the obvious lean to the drivers side:
1.Changed rear steel leaf spring to the composite VBP model
2.Changed both front coil springs with NOS springs
3.Changed front shocks.
and she still has a list to the port side- i mean left side.
Wheel well measurements show that drivers front is 10/16 lower than pass side front, drivers rear is 13/16 lower than pass side rear.
Trim heights (from shop manual) shows "J" point is dead on both sides.
"k" point shows dead on at body points, but show 3/8 lower on pass side when measured to the frame....
While doing the measurements over the past days, I did notice the body mounts on pass side have about 1/4 in. more shims than the drivers side. Otherwise, nothing extraordinarly obvious jumps out at me. Care to give it a good guess, or any knowledge you have would be greatly appreciaated. To date I've thrown out $900 and am no better than the day I started on this problem.
Hope the pis can show the lean, I tried best to hold the camera horizontal as possible.:
[IMG]
[/IMG]
[IMG]
[/IMG]
[IMG]
[/IMG]
Thank you in advance for ANY comments/suggestions/advice....
1.Changed rear steel leaf spring to the composite VBP model
2.Changed both front coil springs with NOS springs
3.Changed front shocks.
and she still has a list to the port side- i mean left side.
Wheel well measurements show that drivers front is 10/16 lower than pass side front, drivers rear is 13/16 lower than pass side rear.
Trim heights (from shop manual) shows "J" point is dead on both sides.
"k" point shows dead on at body points, but show 3/8 lower on pass side when measured to the frame....
While doing the measurements over the past days, I did notice the body mounts on pass side have about 1/4 in. more shims than the drivers side. Otherwise, nothing extraordinarly obvious jumps out at me. Care to give it a good guess, or any knowledge you have would be greatly appreciaated. To date I've thrown out $900 and am no better than the day I started on this problem.
Hope the pis can show the lean, I tried best to hold the camera horizontal as possible.:
[IMG]
[/IMG][IMG]
[/IMG][IMG]
[/IMG]Thank you in advance for ANY comments/suggestions/advice....
Racer
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 474
Likes: 64
From: Portage La Prairie Manitoba
What shape are the body mounts in?
Try shimming drivers side another 3/8 and see how it sits.
No expert here... but that much shimming would indicate something out of whack somewhere.
Perhaps bad frame.
Barry
Try shimming drivers side another 3/8 and see how it sits.
No expert here... but that much shimming would indicate something out of whack somewhere.
Perhaps bad frame.
Barry
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,323
Likes: 2
From: Castle Hills Texas
Heel & Toe
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
From: Cincinnati OH
Your answer sir!!
The car was obviously an origional California vehicle and will always lean to the left. JK
I have a similar problem except mine only is lower in the rear left and higher in the right front. I think I have found the problem and when I get some time I will verify. The sway bar appears to be bent. How that happened only a previous owner can know. Thar bar appears to be larger than 1" in diameter.
Good luck!!
I have a similar problem except mine only is lower in the rear left and higher in the right front. I think I have found the problem and when I get some time I will verify. The sway bar appears to be bent. How that happened only a previous owner can know. Thar bar appears to be larger than 1" in diameter.
Good luck!!
Race Director
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 19,610
Likes: 778
From: Forked River NJ
How does the frame sit. Measure the frame from the ground to a couple of points on both sides. If the frame is square the body is F'ed up. It looks like a broken body mount or if the car was hit and had poor body work.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,343
Likes: 4
From: Anderson SC
All that suspension stuff you bought interacts with the frame, but yet you're measuring wheelwells?
Make sure the frame is square to the ground. If the frame is sitting correctly then the body is at fault.
-W
Last edited by Clams Canino; May 5, 2010 at 04:47 PM.
Corvette Stories
The Best of Corvette for Corvette Enthusiasts
Top 10 Most Expensive Corvettes Ever Sold on Bring A Trailer
Brett Foote
10 Things Every Corvette Owner Needs (2026 Edition)
Michael S. Palmer
8 Most "Only Corvette Owners Understand" Quirks and Problems
Pouria Savadkouei
10 Reasons the C6 Z06 is Still A Performance Benchmark After 20 Years
Joe Kucinski
How Much Horsepower Every Corvette Engine "LOST" in 1972
Joe Kucinski
Top 10 DOs and DON'Ts for Protecting Your Convertible Top!
Michael S. Palmer
Top 10 Most Explosive Corvettes Ever Made: Power-to-Weight Ratio Ranked!
Joe Kucinski
150 hp to 1,250 hp: Every Corvette Generation Compared by the Specs That Matter
Joe Kucinski
8 Coolest Corvette Pace Cars (and Replicas) of All Time
Verdad Gallardo
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,666
Likes: 1
From: Where it's always hot as Hell-South Louisiana.
St. Jude Donor '07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13
more data
some points i should have offered at the beginning:
ALL body mounts that I can see appear to be "normal" looking and original, i.e.- the rubber looks to be 30 years old.None look to be bottomed out, the ones I can see. Can not see #2 or #3 either side.
The frame looks solid with no rust at all.
All shims look to be original, BUT there are noticable MORE shims on the pass side #1 and #4 mounts.These look to be factory shims. I can not see the shims on #2 and #3 mounts.
Distance from bottom of rocker panel to bottom of frame is 1 inch pass side, 3/8 drivers side.(There is more exposed frame on pass side).
No way of telling if it was wrecked before, the seller says NO, he was 3rd owner.The front end alignment was checked yesterday, it was dead on even after new coils were installed. I can not see any body panel damage.Grounding straps are still in place.
Frame to ground measurements are all the same on several places. Only at drivers side kick up is 1/4 inch higher than pass side.
Please keep your suggestions/comments/advice coming. and again, thank you .
Have not looked at the front sway bar with that much detail yet, will do in 10 minutes.
ALL body mounts that I can see appear to be "normal" looking and original, i.e.- the rubber looks to be 30 years old.None look to be bottomed out, the ones I can see. Can not see #2 or #3 either side.
The frame looks solid with no rust at all.
All shims look to be original, BUT there are noticable MORE shims on the pass side #1 and #4 mounts.These look to be factory shims. I can not see the shims on #2 and #3 mounts.
Distance from bottom of rocker panel to bottom of frame is 1 inch pass side, 3/8 drivers side.(There is more exposed frame on pass side).
No way of telling if it was wrecked before, the seller says NO, he was 3rd owner.The front end alignment was checked yesterday, it was dead on even after new coils were installed. I can not see any body panel damage.Grounding straps are still in place.
Frame to ground measurements are all the same on several places. Only at drivers side kick up is 1/4 inch higher than pass side.
Please keep your suggestions/comments/advice coming. and again, thank you .
Have not looked at the front sway bar with that much detail yet, will do in 10 minutes.
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,652
Likes: 49
From: Bridgewater nj
That is a very large sway bar and if it's bent that would cause a lean like that, try unbolting the ends and also meassure the long bolts that hold the car up. If someone cranked up one side more than the other it will cause a lean. I would say the pass rear is up rather than the drivers side being low IMO. Good Luck
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,666
Likes: 1
From: Where it's always hot as Hell-South Louisiana.
St. Jude Donor '07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13
That is a very large sway bar and if it's bent that would cause a lean like that, try unbolting the ends and also meassure the long bolts that hold the car up. If someone cranked up one side more than the other it will cause a lean. I would say the pass rear is up rather than the drivers side being low IMO. Good Luck
The sway bar appears to be normal. Sway bar bolts are same measurements from stud top to backing nut. There appears to be no problem with the sway bar.
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,631
Likes: 293
2020 C3 of the Year Finalist - Modified
Mine used to lean like that, not as noticable but anoyone pulling up behind could tell. Previous owner said it had never been wrecked too.
I changed rear leaf and new coils up front and still nothing.....frame/bodymounts looked and measured ok. Once I started stripping the paint off I noticed my rear pass. 1/4 had been poorly repaired. So it had been wrecked, just never claimed and cheaply fixed.
I replaced with a new 1/4 panel and replaced the rear inner fender well part with a new one too. whoever "fixed it" just glued the inner fender well part back together which is a lot of your rear 1/4 panel's support underneath. I didn't realize this was the cause until i started glassing everything in and noticed how a little adjustment in the inner fender well piece had an effect on how the rear end/rear bumper leaned.
Look closely for signs of body work on either side under the fenders and rear bumper. If it's that far off, the bodyman prob didn't do a clean fix-up too.
that was my problem/fix, hope this helps you.
I changed rear leaf and new coils up front and still nothing.....frame/bodymounts looked and measured ok. Once I started stripping the paint off I noticed my rear pass. 1/4 had been poorly repaired. So it had been wrecked, just never claimed and cheaply fixed.
I replaced with a new 1/4 panel and replaced the rear inner fender well part with a new one too. whoever "fixed it" just glued the inner fender well part back together which is a lot of your rear 1/4 panel's support underneath. I didn't realize this was the cause until i started glassing everything in and noticed how a little adjustment in the inner fender well piece had an effect on how the rear end/rear bumper leaned.
Look closely for signs of body work on either side under the fenders and rear bumper. If it's that far off, the bodyman prob didn't do a clean fix-up too.
that was my problem/fix, hope this helps you.
Last edited by bluegtp; May 5, 2010 at 06:58 PM.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 783
Likes: 38
From: Mankato Mn
Plain & simple, if all tire pressures are the same & the frame measures the same side to side & there is more frame showing on one side than the other your body mounts are toast or its shimmed all wrong. How are the door gaps. I'd say the body has been off !
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 11,152
Likes: 890
From: South Western Ontario
You have to disconnect the sway bars to see if there is a problem with them.
Loosen all the bushings. The rubber bushings won't rotate in their sleeves and if one is tightened while not at ride height then it acts like a spring.
You could put the front or rear on a jack in the middle of the car to see which end is causing it.
I have an Impala and it was leaning. At the front it didn't look bad but the back looked terrible. Still, I changed the left front spring and it leveled out.
Peter
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,666
Likes: 1
From: Where it's always hot as Hell-South Louisiana.
St. Jude Donor '07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13
This itself is a 5/8" difference.
You have to disconnect the sway bars to see if there is a problem with them.
Loosen all the bushings. The rubber bushings won't rotate in their sleeves and if one is tightened while not at ride height then it acts like a spring.
You could put the front or rear on a jack in the middle of the car to see which end is causing it.
I have an Impala and it was leaning. At the front it didn't look bad but the back looked terrible. Still, I changed the left front spring and it leveled out.
Peter
You have to disconnect the sway bars to see if there is a problem with them.
Loosen all the bushings. The rubber bushings won't rotate in their sleeves and if one is tightened while not at ride height then it acts like a spring.
You could put the front or rear on a jack in the middle of the car to see which end is causing it.
I have an Impala and it was leaning. At the front it didn't look bad but the back looked terrible. Still, I changed the left front spring and it leveled out.
Peter
as far as the spring replacement up front, I replaced BOTH coil springs- no help.
thanks for your input. mike j.
Last edited by mikejpss; May 5, 2010 at 08:33 PM. Reason: added line
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,666
Likes: 1
From: Where it's always hot as Hell-South Louisiana.
St. Jude Donor '07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13
bluegtp- man I pray thats not my case. Been all under the car (while on jack stands,) I dont see any signs of repairs.....thanks for your input,pray for me??
Race Director
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 16,528
Likes: 53
From: Dayton, Ohio
Not saying your car has a bent frame but if it took a hard hit to the rf bending the rf spring mount down,this would cause the rf to go up,the left rear to go down and the rr to go up.
The key is the rear of the car balances in the center of the spring and can easily pushed right or left by the front suspension. ( by all means get one end of the front sway disconnected so it won't be a factor)
Here is a little discussion about the dreaded lean. http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c3-t...r-wrecked.html
The key is the rear of the car balances in the center of the spring and can easily pushed right or left by the front suspension. ( by all means get one end of the front sway disconnected so it won't be a factor)
Here is a little discussion about the dreaded lean. http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c3-t...r-wrecked.html
Last edited by ...Roger...; May 5, 2010 at 11:29 PM. Reason: spelling
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 11,152
Likes: 890
From: South Western Ontario
I mean any rubber suspension bushing. The rubber is vulcanized to the inner and outer steel sleeve. Both sleeves are typically held solid, one to the frame and the other to the suspension piece. If you put a twist into the bushing the rubber will try to straighten out, creating a spring type effect.
Peter
Peter
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,666
Likes: 1
From: Where it's always hot as Hell-South Louisiana.
St. Jude Donor '07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13
Not saying your car has a bent frame but if it took a hard hit to the rf bending the rf spring mount down,this would cause the rf to go up,the left rear to go down and the rr to go up.
The key is the rear of the car balances in the center of the spring and can easily pushed right or left by the front suspension. ( by all means get one end of the front sway disconnected so it won't be a factor)
Here is a little discussion about the dreaded lean. http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c3-t...r-wrecked.html
The key is the rear of the car balances in the center of the spring and can easily pushed right or left by the front suspension. ( by all means get one end of the front sway disconnected so it won't be a factor)
Here is a little discussion about the dreaded lean. http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c3-t...r-wrecked.html
Tomorrow I will disconnect the sway bar from both sides at the lower a arms.......
Your theory fits my leaning problem. The RF is higher then the LF,the LR is lower than the RR.
By pressing on the front sides, you can see the opposing rear lift, so the cross spring is free- by your theory. Thank you very much for your insight.
Tomorrow will be checking body mounts (numbers 2 and 3 both sides ) and disconnecting sway bar at both ends... More to come.