1978 Engine needs rebuilt
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 33
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1978 Engine needs rebuilt
So, it's safe to say that my engine is toast. It started as a tick on the passenger side that would come and go, then it got worse, then it started to knock and squeal (metal on metal squeal... still sending shivers down my spine to remember the sound).
Pretty positive that the block and heads are salvageable, and I really don't want to replace the engine. I'd rather rebuild it to keep the numbers. What do you guys say is the best kit for this? I'd say my budget is no more than 800 for this.
Pretty positive that the block and heads are salvageable, and I really don't want to replace the engine. I'd rather rebuild it to keep the numbers. What do you guys say is the best kit for this? I'd say my budget is no more than 800 for this.
Pro
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 737
Likes: 3
From: Pennington NJ
Sorry to hear about the engine problems!
On summit you can get a small block 350 rebuild kit for i think 200 dollars and then you could also get some performance parts. If you are rebuilding this yourself and already have the engine stand and other tools, then you could easily rebuild your engine as long as no major parts have to be replaced. Just get the rebuild kit (220 with pistons and other stuff all you need) New cam and lifters (depending on what you want could range from 100 to much more) and other stuff i think 800 is plenty.
Good luck!
Will
On summit you can get a small block 350 rebuild kit for i think 200 dollars and then you could also get some performance parts. If you are rebuilding this yourself and already have the engine stand and other tools, then you could easily rebuild your engine as long as no major parts have to be replaced. Just get the rebuild kit (220 with pistons and other stuff all you need) New cam and lifters (depending on what you want could range from 100 to much more) and other stuff i think 800 is plenty.
Good luck!
Will
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 37,637
Likes: 3,118
From: Crossville TN
Well, you first need to pull the bearing caps off the crank journals and check them for size. That's probably where the knocking is coming from...worn bearings. If the crank can be polished up, $800 may get you going again. If the crank journals need to be re-ground, the cost will go up. And if the crank can't be salvaged, it goes up even more.
I wish you good luck with the diagnosis.
I wish you good luck with the diagnosis.
Racer
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 393
Likes: 3
From: Dallas, TX
I'd pull the engine and put it in the corner of the garage and build something a bit more powerful for the time being, also the level of your mechanical inclination and competence will determine how much this project costs, if you farm it out, the sky's the limit. However, new cam, lifters, bearings and a gasket set could be done for less than a $1k if you do almost all of the wrenching. Also I wouldn't mess with the pistons and heads unless you want to build it up because stock heads have terrible flow dynamics as well as the intakes(they are a 1970's design ok then, crap now), then your talking heads, intake and carb as well. Good luck with whatever you decide.
-alex
-alex
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Oct 2009
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Thanks guys. I am planning on doing all the work myself and with a friend of mine who's ASE certified. So I know I'll be saving a little money that way.
I happen to have another spare 350 in a 1975 pickup of mine that's built pretty well. I'm going to put that engine in my car for the time being until I can tackle the project of rebuilding the vette engine. So at least it won't be a helpless hunk of scrap sitting in the yard.
I happen to have another spare 350 in a 1975 pickup of mine that's built pretty well. I'm going to put that engine in my car for the time being until I can tackle the project of rebuilding the vette engine. So at least it won't be a helpless hunk of scrap sitting in the yard.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,720
Likes: 12
From: Chattanooga TN
You can't rebuild it right for $800. Even with a $159 Northern Auto Parts kit you still need $150 worth of plugs, oil, wires, cap, rotor, antifreeze, motor mounts, gaskets, etc. You would probbaly want to opt up for a different cam or better gaskets for more $$. Even if not, that would leave $500 for all machine work. You will be lucky if both heads are good, but even so I don't see getting out that cheap. You can easily spend $300-400 just on heads by the time you get them worked and put in guides and a few valves; more with a 3-angle valve job. Turn the crank, press pistons, resize rods, bore the block, magnaflux, line bore or deck if necessary, it all adds up. If you really have a hard $800 budget I would try to find a $350-400 running 96 up 5.7 Vortec longblock from the junkyard, look for a Vortec intake for the carb on Ebay and put that in the car. Save your old engine and build it later, but $1800 is a more realistic budget to do it right IMHO.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 7,739
Likes: 630
From: Unreconstructed, South Carolina
ASE don't necessarily mean qualified to build a motor. Most of the ASE guys 'round these parts couldn't fit piston rings if their azz was on fire. The dealerships require ASE now but these days you don't find motor builds as part of warranty work. Maybe your guy's a pro?
$800 probably won't get the required machinework + required parts. Unless your ASE guy is a motor pro + he owns the machine shop + he's also your brother.
I endorse the vortec (aka "R" aka "L31") motor -- bag & tag OE path.
$800 probably won't get the required machinework + required parts. Unless your ASE guy is a motor pro + he owns the machine shop + he's also your brother.
I endorse the vortec (aka "R" aka "L31") motor -- bag & tag OE path.
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Oct 2009
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I trust his work. He's my roommate and he's done 9 small blocks that I know of. Mostly for other people, but one or two for himself. The machine work I know the owner of the shop so it's not going to be horrible to have to pay for the crank. Seems every now and then I can get the right hook up for stuff that I need.
Anyway, the 'new' engine is in the car. Nice, cleaned up, Chevy orange 350. Actually looks like it belongs there. Just not running yet. Not enough time in the day when I spend half of it doing parts runs.
Anyway, the 'new' engine is in the car. Nice, cleaned up, Chevy orange 350. Actually looks like it belongs there. Just not running yet. Not enough time in the day when I spend half of it doing parts runs.
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Le Mans Master
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From: mount holly NC
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I trust his work. He's my roommate and he's done 9 small blocks that I know of. Mostly for other people, but one or two for himself. The machine work I know the owner of the shop so it's not going to be horrible to have to pay for the crank. Seems every now and then I can get the right hook up for stuff that I need.
Anyway, the 'new' engine is in the car. Nice, cleaned up, Chevy orange 350. Actually looks like it belongs there. Just not running yet. Not enough time in the day when I spend half of it doing parts runs.
Anyway, the 'new' engine is in the car. Nice, cleaned up, Chevy orange 350. Actually looks like it belongs there. Just not running yet. Not enough time in the day when I spend half of it doing parts runs.
It's important to keep the wheels rolling so you can enjoy your Vette.
The motor may last a few years and give you more to save up and by then $3000.00 for 400HP may be in the ballpark.
Thread Starter
Intermediate
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But I swear... I've NEVER had an engine go in as easily as this one did. I thought I was gonna fight it for at LEAST a half hour, but after we lined it up it slid right in on the first try!! I'm almost scared of what's going to go wrong now to make up for that being too easy.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,720
Likes: 12
From: Chattanooga TN
I trust his work. He's my roommate and he's done 9 small blocks that I know of. Mostly for other people, but one or two for himself. The machine work I know the owner of the shop so it's not going to be horrible to have to pay for the crank. Seems every now and then I can get the right hook up for stuff that I need.
Anyway, the 'new' engine is in the car. Nice, cleaned up, Chevy orange 350. Actually looks like it belongs there. Just not running yet. Not enough time in the day when I spend half of it doing parts runs.
Anyway, the 'new' engine is in the car. Nice, cleaned up, Chevy orange 350. Actually looks like it belongs there. Just not running yet. Not enough time in the day when I spend half of it doing parts runs.
Thread Starter
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Do you have any sort of breakdown on what he is proposing to do and some local costs? I assume he works for free on this one? I mean you can skip some steps if all you want is a running numbers-matching engine, but If you have a rod knocking you can't just put it back-or the one right beside it-without resizing them. You can probably get a used crank for $50 or so-even if you don't have to turn it, you should at least polish it. You could get another pair of cheap used rods or used pistons with rod I guess. I wouldn't. If you have a rod knocking you will probably have metal through the engine, the block/oil galleries will need to be cleaned well, not just pressure washed. Late 70's 350 heads are notorious to crack between the valves so I'm not sure how you are "Pretty positive that the block and heads are salvageable". Also, I have seen blocks with knocking rods crack main saddles, it is rare, but it happens. If you don't magnaflux and check, you won't know. You can throw together a motor for $800 but you can't begin do it right.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,720
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From: Chattanooga TN
I was considering a full rebuild kit from Summit. They're around 500, and yeah, his work is all free. We haven't pulled anything major apart from the engine yet, but we did pull the intake and valve covers off and there isn't any damage to the lifters or top end. I'll have to remember to check the heads for cracks when we get them off.
Then you have relaxed your $800 budget? If you start with a $500 kit you have no money for any machine work. You still need 2 rods and a crank at least, plus all the incidentals to put an engine in-those 2 things will easily eat most of the other $300. Not trying to disuade you from doing it, just want to make sure you have enough $ to finish when you start. Just because the lifters look OK doesn't mean they are not full of bearing material. Are you going to reuse the same cam and lifters anyway? You may or may not see the cracks in the heads, they need to be magnafluxed to check for cracks. Good luck with your project.
Thread Starter
Intermediate
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Ok... say I went with this one for 230.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-SBCKIT1-000/
That keeps the price down. I'll have to throw in rods and lifters and a cam to complete it though. What kind of cam should I go with? I can relax my budget a little if I have to, and the parts are worth it, but that just means it will take me longer to save the money for it.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-SBCKIT1-000/
That keeps the price down. I'll have to throw in rods and lifters and a cam to complete it though. What kind of cam should I go with? I can relax my budget a little if I have to, and the parts are worth it, but that just means it will take me longer to save the money for it.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,720
Likes: 12
From: Chattanooga TN
Here is a nice basic kit for $190
http://www.northernautoparts.com/Pro...?ProductId=148
It includes a cam and lifters, but you might want to upgrade the cam. I have used a few of their kits and they are very good. Were a Forum sponsor a few months back.
I can't get a grasp on what you are truly going to pay for machine work. But here is some basic budgeting:
$190 engine kit
$150 paint, sealer, oil, filter, pickup screen, gaskets, motor mounts, plugs, wires, antifreeze, air filter, etc.-incedentals
$60 used 350 (or 305) to get a crank and 2 rods
so far about $400 gone (with a basic cam-more if you upgrade) This has you reusing pushrods, carb, intake, fuel pump, water pump.
Minimum machine work-prices best I remember 7+ years ago:
bore block $150
tank block/clean misc parts $50
basic valve job and 8 guides $200 IF YOU ARE LUCKY
press pistons and resize rods $100
turn crank $80
magnaflux block and heads $40
roughly $600 minimum! Inquire locally and see what some of these things cost. $800+ in machine work alone would not be uncommon.
This has you and your builder installing cam bearings and freeze plugs and assumes your heads are buildable. If you have to find a head(s), add. If you have to deck the block, add. If you have to line bore, add.
http://www.northernautoparts.com/Pro...?ProductId=148
It includes a cam and lifters, but you might want to upgrade the cam. I have used a few of their kits and they are very good. Were a Forum sponsor a few months back.
I can't get a grasp on what you are truly going to pay for machine work. But here is some basic budgeting:
$190 engine kit
$150 paint, sealer, oil, filter, pickup screen, gaskets, motor mounts, plugs, wires, antifreeze, air filter, etc.-incedentals
$60 used 350 (or 305) to get a crank and 2 rods
so far about $400 gone (with a basic cam-more if you upgrade) This has you reusing pushrods, carb, intake, fuel pump, water pump.
Minimum machine work-prices best I remember 7+ years ago:
bore block $150
tank block/clean misc parts $50
basic valve job and 8 guides $200 IF YOU ARE LUCKY
press pistons and resize rods $100
turn crank $80
magnaflux block and heads $40
roughly $600 minimum! Inquire locally and see what some of these things cost. $800+ in machine work alone would not be uncommon.
This has you and your builder installing cam bearings and freeze plugs and assumes your heads are buildable. If you have to find a head(s), add. If you have to deck the block, add. If you have to line bore, add.
Last edited by markdtn; Jul 20, 2010 at 12:09 PM.
