Originally Posted by Vette5.5

No, the 200R4 is pretty weak, but usually fine for low hp street use. The 400 and 4L80 are real brute's, and can be built to stand up to most anything. If the 400 you're replacing is a short shaft, then maybe get by running a 200R4 with only a yoke change. If going to a 700R4/4L60 or 4L80, probably need to get the drive shaft shortened.

Originally Posted by ED69ray

I would not let him build me an outhouse........he built me a TH350 that did nothing but leak fluid all over my garage floor.

Originally Posted by Jake's Performance

Here we go again Ed,
Let's get the whole story.
YOU installed the TH350. I fixed a leak that was my or one of my builder's fault by coming to your house. Most other shops don't do house calls no matter who is at fault.

After you decided you didnt like your USED converter and wanted to go manual, you DEMANDED a refund for a leak while sitting, most likely caused by the dipstick that YOU installed.

We offered to look at it either at my shop or your place or transport your car, but you wanted to be an ******* about it, so the favor was returned.

We were willing to fix the issue whether it was our fault or the more likely case of installer error at no cost to you but your attitude cost you any option with my company.

Fortunately we now have a transmission dyno to catch any builder errors, but we still can't control installer errors or the customer who won't spend the money to do it right and install a new converter.

Originally Posted by '75

Jake, I sent you a PM

Originally Posted by SHAKERATTLEROLL

For myself I have found Jake to be a straight up and honest person that is willing to help.

I also have to say you would have to go a long way to upset Jake enough for him to say enough. But it seems you went the extra mile on this one.

Originally Posted by Jake's Performance

Thanks,
I found it very odd that when he called to address a minor leak when sitting that he was demanding a refund, not asking for help with a repair or even allowing us to actually see the issue for ourselves.
A bit of searching online quickly revealed his true motives.

Vendors beware of this clown.

Originally Posted by SHAKERATTLEROLL

For myself I have found Jake to be a straight up and honest person that is willing to help.

I also have to say you would have to go a long way to upset Jake enough for him to say enough. But it seems you went the extra mile on this one.

Originally Posted by ED69ray

Yeah Jake, I had some secret crazy motive to pull an "expertly built" tranny within 6 weeks of installing it. And without a lift at that.

There you go whining about not having the proper equipment to do the job or not wanting to work on your hobby car again...Simple fact is you left out a part on the rebuild that caused the first massive leak. When the second leak sprung up within weeks of the first my confidence in you as a "professional tranny builder" was gone.

I did leave a seal out, and admitted it, AND came to your location and repaired it. The second leak, I couldn't address because you demanded a refund instead of letting us look at it to see if it was even a transmission issue and not an installer issue. Should I refund your money because you don't know what you are doing?
Considering all the aggrivation, lost time, and only 6 week timeframe I thought it completely reasonable to ask for a refund. We were only talking $700.

I was not asking for reimbursement to cover my time, the $60-$70 worth of tranny fluid I sprayed all over the neighboprhood, or the o-ring that I paid for at NAPA. No all I asked was to return your tranny in the same condition I had picked it up in 6 weeks earlier. If i had the same issues with any vendor on this site I would do the same thing again.

$60-70 worth of transmission fluid? Come on Ed, therre you go exaggerating again, a TH350 only holds about 9-11 qts from dry. At $3.29 a qt, you want to try the math again?

And for the record, the reson I was not keen to drop my car off at your shop is I would never leave a $20,000 classic car at an uninsured shop out in the middle of nowhere.

Has never been an issue when I've had $100K in the shop...The tranny had to come out anyway so I decided to go 4 speed. Big deal. If your TH350 had given me no issues it would still be in the car.

Do I need to link your post about your poor choice of converter?
So call me a clown or dumbass like you did on another site. Gloat and bragg that "you made money off of me". Guys, all I did was pay good money for a defective tranny and had the nerve to ask for my money back.

All I can say is I'm really glad I was only dumb enough to spend $700 with this guy - it could have been much worse.

Good Luck

Originally Posted by tracdogg2

Ok guys. This has been going on for what, 6 months now. Time for it to end. You can use what I have to say or call me names in your sleep, doesn't really matter.

You have obviously gotten Ed's side of the story, I don't believe we've ever met or spoken. You're welcome to call anytime to get the other half of the story. Most people who have ever installed a TH350 or had considerable time working on or under classic cars understand what I will address later in this post.
Ed, your first mistake was buying a trans as a "special deal" since the customer that originally orderd it bailed.

Ed got a trans for $100 off IIRC due to a previous buyer not having a use for it, so I helped out both parties, my previous customer who needed the cash and not the transmission, and Ed because I usually have a several week backlog on transmision builds. I know your main reason for buying it was to have a performance trans in the car but you should have gone with a 400 not the 350.

A TH350 is more than adequate for the power level of Ed's car. While I am biased for the TH400 a well, this wan't an issue with Ed's decision.Second you didn't by a new converter. I know the one you used came out of the car, only had 2500miles on it, and worked fine but it is still a gamble. Plus it gives the trans shop a reason to void the warranty.
COLOR="Red"]I'll agree with you here and cover a bit more ground with it.
ANYTIME any customer buys a rebuilt unit, they SHOULD use a new converter. I sell converters like Ed needed at COST to encourage customers to use them. A mild 2200-2400 stall built by a local performance converter shop.
When they build a converter, it is checked for build height, hub runout, pressure checked, balanced, and the internals are freshly cleaned. I can only visually check for metal contaminated fluid and obvious hub damage (cracks or deformities). I inspected it but recommended a new converter and offered it at cost, which I believe was $100 at that time.[[/COLOR]
Jake, you inspected the converter and approved it to use in the trans. You should know better.Again, you are getting a one sided story. I did tell Ed it looked OK because he seemed determined to use it despite me recommending and pricing a new converter.

Leaving out the accumulator seal is not done by accident. Any rebuilder knows when the seal is not in there when installing the cover.
It can be done easily by accident. It is very easy to cut that particular seal when installing the cover. I usually keep a couple of spares for that reason. It was likely cut on install, thrown away, and then the cover installed to keep any foreign material out of the trans until I could get another seal. In that type of case, I usually tag the transmission so I don't forget. I made a mistake in this case, simple human error. I'm sure that nobody here has ever made a mistake on a component with over 400 parts. How could you trust the rest of the rebuild. Your reputation is on the line. You went to Ed's house and installed the seal. One problem fixed.
Fixed by me making a house call, which no other shop would likely do, the fact that I'm willing to do that should indicate I stand behind what I buildThen the converter would drain down after sitting a couple of days and fluid leaking out of the front seal. Something is wrong with the converter, pump, or sealing rings. You told him no warranty because of the used coverter but did offer to pull the trans and go back thru it at your shop. Ed declined.Again, you are getting Ed's side of the story. I offered to look at the leak to determine it's cause, because Ed couldn't find it or wasn't willing to jack the car up. We offered three options, bring it to us, let u have it transported, or we would come to his location and look at it again. I do have a lift and an insured facility, so looking at it with the car in the air with a fully equipped shop at our disposal is preferred. A converter will ALWAYS drainback, unfortunately I don't have control over gravity. A good indicator that this happens in all cases is that the proper fluid fill check procedure is with the engine (trans pump) running. When the converter drains back, the fluid level in the pan get higher and leaks at any point it can. On a TH350 or most units, this is the dipstick tube. Most tubes on older cars use an o-ring seal which a very poor design.I would be willing to bet most enthusiasts here have had a transmission dipstick tube leak on an older vehicle, and most after repeated attempts to fix it. Let me remind everyone Ed installed the transmission and dipstick here...
I would say 95% of leaks while sitting happen at the dipstick. I have no control over that unless I do the install. I don't know what the leak was in Ed's case because he didn't want it fixed, he demanded a refund for a problem we were willing to address, whether it was his fault or ours BECAUSE of his previous issues with the accumulator seal. His demeanor and attitude had much more to do with the voided warranty than the actual used converter. we would have bent over backwards to fix any issue had he been willing to let us do so, however demanding a refund on a transmission that has potentially been contaminated from the used converter wasn't an option. If your shop is unisured then that is understandable. So here comes the bashing.
Who is at fault? Both of you. The cost? Ed lost money and you damaged your reputaion. Over one little mistake that could have been resolved admirably. The moment the accumulator seal was found missing you should have requested, and made it worth Ed's time, to have the trans brought back to your shop and thoroughly gone thru. There was no complaint of any functional issue with the trans, a major leak, that as should be thoroughly clear by now was my fault and I fixed, and a minor leak, most likely from a dipstick that we weren't allowed to look at or fix, even at his place. Had he allowed me to look at it, and I determined it was a gross issue with the trans, such as a cracked case or other issue, we probably would have refunded his money to make him happy. The best of my understanding it operated fine as far as shifts. There is no reason to completely go through a unit because of external leaks that I know had all new frictions, steels, internal seals, bushings, thrusts, filter, band, etc. We dyno them daily at the shop now and we don't do a complete teardown just because we find a valve body issue.Ed gave you a way out. Buy the trans back. You could have fixed it, and resold it for full price. Then no one would be reading this. Instead you make accusations that Ed's purpose was that he wanted a 4 spd in the car.I easily could have, however as stated before the reason it didn't happen was Ed's refusal to even allow us to look and see if there was actually a fault, what the cause of the fault was if so, fix the fault, and make the problem right. If you have 27 yrs in the transmission industry, you wouldn't just give a customer a refund because they said it was leaking, you would want to see the problem and attempt a repair. ESPECIALLY when it was customer installed. Am I wrong? I'm pretty sure that the bulk of this forum and most automotive enthusiast, even if they don't own a business would agree. Why should I take Ed on his word when he's already posted dissatisfaction with his converter choice and expressed his issues with having to work on his own car And installer error which has now brought me into this. I have 27 years experience rebuilding and installing transmissions. Ed went with the 4 speed, that I installed, because of the problems with the automatic. It doesn't matter how many thousands of transmissions you've built for happy customers, it's how you handle the one that has a problem. Recently I fully re-rebuilt a differential for a man after he put the wrong gear lube in it even though it had sat for 2 years during the restoration. I'm out $650 and didn't charge him a dime. He's happy which makes me happy.
I've done the same many times. I've rebuild units AND paid shipping when the customer incorrectly installed a TV cable and burned up a transmission in short order. I did so because the customer was absolutely honest with me about the cause of failure and fully expected to pay for his mistake. I would have known the cause on teardown but his honesty bought him over $300 worth of free shipping and $1000 rebuild. I stand behind what I build but it's easy to identify a scam in this case.
Was all this worth $20 worth of seals and 10 quarts of atf?
Mike

Originally Posted by ED69ray

What Jake won't tell you is that he personally inspected my tq convertor and told me it was good to run. I would have bought a new one if I thought it necessary. By omitting that fact he attempts to make me look like the idiot who used a junk convertor.

Again its easy to blame his shoddy workmanship on "install error" But what Jake does not know is that Mike Dyer (tracdogg2) helped me put the tranny in. There were no install errors. Mike asked me about the convertor and I told him Jake had inspected it and said it was like new.

Most of you here know Mike for his ability to build the IRS for our cars as well as anything else Vette related. He is an absolute master at anything mechanical on vintage cars. It was he who found the inuitial leak to be a missing o-ring on the acc cover.

I'm over it. I lost a little money but learned a valueable lesson in return. Hopefully you guys won't make the same mistake.

Originally Posted by tracdogg2

Well I may be just an ole mechanic, and I may be getting one side of the story but my eyes still work. So when I see fluid running down the face of the pump I'm pretty sure it's not the dipstick. I never used the word refund. I said buy the tranny back. I also have all the ASE certs, along with L1, and was taking these tests when it was ISASE.
My point is it took so little for this to go so bad. This is the problem with pi$$ing contests. Everyone gets wet and it usually leaves a bad taste. I heard Ed's story, I've read your story, and I've seen it with my own eyes. You made mistakes, Ed made mistakes and nothing got resolved in a professional manner. I've tried to show how silly this whole situation is by pointing out the facts as a witness would in court and letting the people decide. Now that we have come to an impasse, continuing this conversation is pointless. Hopefully everyone else feels the same way.
My apologies to the OP. This isn't the answer he was looking for.
Mike

Originally Posted by Jake's Performance

My eyes work as well,
You were given an opportunity to see the leak, I wasn't.

My instincts are also pretty good and I can detect a scam or something out of place, which I did in this case.

It seems to me that you being the friend and personal mechanic questioned the used converter, as I did, would probably agree that a front seal leak would be most likely directly attributable to the converter hub or possible rough installation?
Did you see any fault with the seals installation?

See how the big red flags keep popping up the more that come out on this story?

When Ed spoke to my employees and myself as he did, all point of trying to be professional ended.
I would bet you would have felt the same had he been your customer.

Originally Posted by ED69ray

WOW you finally admit that you inspected my convertor and told me it was good to run - Thats a first. I guess you forgot to mention that using it would void my warranty?

Mike I agree things were not handled well by both parties but I was still the customer and it was my money being spent.

Jake the reason I had to deal with "your employee" was that you were uncontactable for about 2 weeks between the 1st and 2nd leak. Tommy told me you were in Houston doing oilfield work to supplememt your income. Either way I did not appreciate getting the runaround when I had another problem.

I do enjoy working on my cars but you are dense if you think its fun to have to pull a tranny that was installed only weeks earlier.

You pointed the finger at me as soon as problems arose. First its the used convertor then its improper installn - all to take focus away from an improperly built tranny. My patience with your shop expired when you told me to basically eat the tranny and that you "were not going to support my hot rod habit".

Worst part of this whole situation is I knew better. I should never have bought the TH350 after seeing your dirty unorganized shop.



End result is I am out about $200 and thats ok cause after seeing your operation I am certain you need the money more than I.

Good luck

Originally Posted by Jake's Performance

You think because you live in an upper middle class neighborhood with a big mortgage that your somehow higher class than my "dirty unorganized shop"

The bottom line is,
you were too cheap to use a new converter as I suggested and you got to eat the results, not because of the converter but because of your attitude. I'm glad to see you finally admitted some fault here.
You whined about having to work on your own hobby car, about not having the tools, etc.



If you were the big spender you think you are, you would have bought an overdrive trans, in both cases, automatic or manual. Instead you couldn't even afford a $100 converter, and then want to complain when you have a leak caused by your decision.

I took care of and admitted fault when I made a mistake. The other mistake I made was letting you leave with a transmission when I knew you didn't plan on using a new converter. Lesson learned.
I don't sell $750 transmissions anymore. I am not targeting the market of clients who won't even buy a $100 torque converter.