Ok, I'm pulling my hair out here. The old, original distributor that I pulled out was sitting more or less perpendicular to the engine (that is to say the 1,8 posts were). I have verified the new balancer is reading TDC correctly. I set the engine at 12* btdc, dropped in the distributor with it pointed at #1, and now it looks like this.



And here's the balancer...



Did I screw something up, or is that normal? I've tried stabbing it one tooth more clockwise, but that skews the angle clockwise just about as much.

I have no idea if the original was timed correctly or not. The engine was running ... not great but it was running. But I do know the vacuum advance was non-functional.

 

I think your going 2 teeth if its going that much clockwise.Did you swap out the lower gear ? On some of the older engines while trying to get the vac nipple behind the bracket to minimize the cable angle I've had to flip the gear 180 degrees.

 

I didn't swap anything.

I dunno, Roger. I probably installed it a dozen times. I'm 93% sure I only rotated it one tooth. I count 13 teeth on the gear, so that equates to about 28* per tooth. And the difference between the first pic and this one ..



I would eyeball right around that much.

I think I follow what you're saying about the lower gear. Because there's an odd number of teeth on the gear, if I reinstall it 180* out that will change my rotor position by half a tooth. And judging by my pics that would probably put it spot on. Hmmmmmmm

 

Hi W, Roger is giving good info. One thing I will add, I would go ahead and run and time the engine and see where the distributor is at that point before changing the gear.

 

Went through the same thing when I first installed the HEI dizzy in my 69.

It looked exactly like your in picture #1.


I gave up, twisted the dizzy so the orientation was "straight" across, connected everything and hit the key.



Car immediately started up and ran perfectly.....

 

Engine looks great. So, i take it the engine was running good before you changed dist. ? I have to ask, way do some set their timming before installing the dist. ? I have always set my timming at TDC, then take a long screw driver, turn oil pump shift to line up with dist. gear with rotor pointing to #1 cyl. Drop in, fine tune.

 

Did you ever verify with a light what your timing was? Wouldn't that give you a ton of retard?

 

thanks!

I'm not trying to set timing per se. I just want the damn thing to start and run halfway decent. I'll fine tune with a light once everything is buttoned up.

 

It's a VERY good idea to set the timing correctly before you start it.

Your oil pump pickup has most likely shifted and isn't letting the distributor line up properly. Conveniently, the direction the rotor should end up pointing for #1 at 0* is going to be in the same line as the little bar on the bottom of the distributor gear. Eyeball it, and turn the oil pump pickup so that it matches that line.

That should get you where you want to be.

 

I'm certain the gear has engaged the oil pump pickup correctly. If it hadn't, the dizzy flange would be standing off the intake about 3/8th"

 

Did the rotor point in the correct direction when finished?

Pretty much every time I've pulled a distributor, that $#!@-ing thing shifts on me. (oil pump pickup)

 

Try setting your timing where you finally want it, 34 or 36 or whatever at rpm without removing the dist. then if not aligned correctly remove the cap, one hand turning the rotor and the other lifting slowly on the housing until you can feel the gear move a tooth or however many teeth you need. You will be able to feel and count each tooth. If the pump shaft prevents the dist from fully seating, then just have someone bump the engine over while putting pressure down on the housing. Fastest way I've found.

If you still can't get it aligned, then install the gear on the shaft 180° and repeat, that should align it.

Here is one set to 35°

 

I think that's the path I'll take, Noonie. I need to get it running and see where the timing really is. I suspect I'll end up backing off enough advance that 1 tooth CW will line it up.

 

Then turn rotor approximately 1/8 in. counterclockwise and push down. I guess this why GM says to do it this way.

I guess i should have asked about what cam you have. ie= my car says 8 degrees BTDC. My cam says to start @ 2-4 degrees so i find with 0 degrees, i have a little more to play with.

 

Might be stating the obvious here, but you only show the distributor with the cap on in your pics. That's not really what's important at this point. Bring the engine up to TDC (if you don't know how ask) and then drop the dizzy in so the rotor is pointing at where you want the number one spark plug wire to be. You can use a long screw driver to turn the oil pump drive where ever you need it to be.

 

Yeah I know. I showed it with the cap on because it's not as apparent just looking at the rotor.

 

Often, when you pull the distributor, the oil pump drive will turn a bit. Stick a screwdriver in and turn it where you need it.

 

I don't want to seem ungrateful for any advice given, but the thing about the oil pump is it's incredibly obvious when you haven't engaged it correctly. As I mentioned, the dizzy flange will stand off the surface of the manifold by about 3/8" if it's not engaged correctly. There's really no way for the oil pump to skew the rotor position because you either engage it or not. There's no middle ground with that one. The easiest way I found was to just turn the rotor CCW about 2" back from the #1 post position, lower it in, then manually turn the crank over until the dizzy drops down the rest of the way. The reason this works is because you've already engaged the cam gear. The oil pump shaft won't hold you up high enough to keep from engaging the cam gear. Hence the rotor-cam relationship won't change at this point. So you just crank crank crank and at some point *thunk* the dizzy drops down the rest of the way ... easy as pie.

 

Without the distributor cap off, one can't see where the rotor is pointing. Further, if you can't start it, you don't know where the distributor body (cap assy) will end up pointing.

Here's the things you've done right:
Setting the crank to 12 degrees BTDC, however, did you ensure that it's at TDC-firing for #1, or is it at TDC-firing for #6?

If you did not check this, look at the #3 intake valve - is it open? (pull the left hand valve cover and look.) If it is, you're at TDC-firing for #1; if it's not, you're at firing for #6. Whichever you find, no need to turn the crank another turn, just drop in the distributor so that the rotor points to the post for whichever cylinder is at TDC-firing (NOT TDC-overlap). Ensure that the #1 and #8 dist. posts are perpendicular to the engine's center-line.

For the advanced tuner, the body of the dist will need to be rotated a bit more to get the initial timing right... the best way is to position the body of the distributor to align the 8 inward-facing points of the stator pickup with the 8 outward-facing points of the rotor. This is exactly when the HEI triggers (technically, just when the points pass exact alignment.)

For even better accuracy, pull up on the distributor shaft as you do the above alignment - this takes out the running clearance as the shaft is normally forced upwards by the camshaft drive gear against the distributor gear. As the shaft moves upwards to the running position, the rotor will turn counter-clockwise a degree or two compared to the static position.

Using the above procedure will get you running quite well, at least enough to put a timing light on the engine at do a final timing set.

Finally, you should hook up the vacuum advance to the canister.


__________________
1965 Convertible
NCCC 2B National Drag Record Holder
11.34 second 1/4 Mile

 

Understood, I marked the #1 post position on the distributor body and eyeballed it. I realize this isn't accurate and always planned on going back and fine tuning with a light.

I stuck my finger in the #1 plug hole and then cranked over the engine by hand until it spat it out. I'd previously verified the new balancer reads true with a method outlined by Lars.

That's exactly what I did, and the distributor body ended up being oriented as you see in the pic. But you say..

Wait ... ok ... now that I typed that out I think I see what's happening. If I go to the next CW stator-rotor aligned position, that will rotate the dist. body by 45* CW (360/8). Then if I restab the rotor CCW by one tooth, that will rotate it 27.7* CCW (360/13). So to align the stator again, that will require it also to rotate 27.7* CCW giving the dizzy body a total CW rotation of 17.3* (45-27.7) And that first pic of mine looks suspiciously close to 17.3*. Am I thinking right?

Damnit I feel stupid now. I'll try to remedy this (again) tonight.

edit: On second thought, I think my problem is my #1 plug is actually at the 7 o'clock position and not the 5 o'clock. I've read that some SBCs have it here? So if I go 2 cogs CW on the rotor for 55.4* and then back the stator (dist. body) 10.4* CCW to line it up with the post at 7 o'clock ... what do you bet that would line up the dist.?