Here gose.I have filled my motive power bleed 4 times.when I bleed the rear calibers I open the inside first.when I first open up the bleeder I get a few bubbles and then it clears up after a quart of fluid I close it off and bleed the outer bleeder.when I first open it I get a few bubbles and it to clears up l. I f I go back and open up the inner bleeder I get a few bubbles and the it runs clear.It dosent happen with the front just the rear.I have speed bleeders and Im not leaking any fluid from around them.also spungy pedal.man what gives.the only I haven't replaced is the hard lines.I bleed the mastercylinder off the car and again on the car.I let all the small bubbles rise out of the fluid before I screw on the lid on the power bleeder and pump it up.nuts

 

If you're using speed bleeders, you don't need the power bleeder. Open a bleeder, sit in the driver's seat, and pump the pedal SLOWLY a few times. Close the bleeder, and repeat the process with the next bleeder. Do the same with the front, even though you say they're good. That should remove any remaining air from the system.

Unless you're using DOT 5 silicone fluid -- that's a different story.

 

Im using dot 5.
Yea I know all about the hard to get the air out of it deal.after 4 quarts thru the left rear caliber you would think it would all be out.I have used the pedal method also.I have bleed every which way you can.dam this thing.

 

After all the bubbles stop I took off the power bleeder and peddle bleed it.right off I get a lot of air pockets in the clear bleed lines .

 

When I finished bleeding it with motive power bleeder the fluid ran clear.when I started bleeding it with the pedal method I get large pockets of air coming out.I know I have completely changed the fluid out 10 times today.Its almost like its introducing air back into the system somehow.the calibers are about4 years old.sleeved with lipseals.the have less than .2000 miles on them.I installed the speed bleeders out of frustration the last time I bleed it.the mastercylinder is fine.I blocked off the exit ports and its hard as a rock.where the hell is all this air coming from.when the car had manual brakes the pedal was hard even with the dot 5 in it.If I wind up putting new ring calibers on it Im going to flush out this crap and put dot 4 back in it.

 

Ed I wish it was that simple but I have the hose submerged in fluid in a container.I watch it as I pump the pedal and the fluid and any bubbles are not flowing backwards as the speed bleeders have a check valve to prevent back flow.I would gladly replace the calibers with new oringed versions if I thought it would fix it.I haven't even driven since I bleed this time except to move back into its parking spot in the garage.when I backed it out it would stop pretty good but has a very low pedal.I measured the rod that gose between the mastercylinder and brake booster and it seems to be the correct length.when I bleed them I open one in the rear and one in the front on the same side to keep the brake switch centered.I have also trier one at a time with equal results.I checked all the connections on the brake lines and they are all tight.the system has never leaked.you would think if it were drawing air in where the bleeders screw into the calibers it would be leaking fluid around them.I have changed out a mastercylinder on the side of the road and bleed the brakes without even a hose connected to the bleeders and got better results.

 

I had speed bleeders in my calipers and then purchased a Motive Power Bleeder. I run Silicone brake fluid and have o ring calipers. Filled the bottle with fluid. Changed the bleeders back to original. Started with,

RR Inside bleeder, then outside bleeder
RL Inside bleeder, then outside bleeder
FR
FL

Rock hard pedal, if you have lip seal calipers they maybe letting air back in once bled.

 

I checked the run out and its good.4 brand new rotors.Im having the air problem during bleeding.that is I can't seem to get the air out and get a good pedal before I even drive the car.I. even put a couple of lug nuts back on the rear rotors and snuged em to keep everything true.this thing has really got me puzzled.

 

When I got my car the left rear was leaked out so I rebuilt that one and started the bleed thing..got the left rear to bleed out fine but the right rear did what you describe..got clear then air..so I rebuilt the right rear then they were ok..then the right front did the same thing so I rebuilt that one and now its ok..the left front is still ok..not sure if changing types of fluid will make this happen..but these lip seals are cheap and easy to do..might have one that is allowing air past when using suction..my tank style one I use at work is so powerfull that if I use it on wheel cylinders it sucks air right past the seals..I use a bottle with a hose in brake fluid and just pump the pedal..I found that it works very fast if you have a sealed system..I rarely my power bleeder anymore..is your air problem with both rears or just one side..

 

Its hard to believe that they deteriorated with
Less than 2000 miles on them but that's over a period of 5 years sitting most of the time.the thing that gets me is I couldn't get a hard pedal even after using the power bleeder.If the lip seal was the problem how is keeping me from getting the air sitting static.I bleed the brakes with the power bleeder and without even driving the car it had a bad pedal.I would gladly put a set of oringed calibers on it if I knew it would take care of the problem.

 

I should have been more specific on what I found when I rebuilt the calipers..on the lower pistons of each caliper was dirt or whatever you want to call it..it covered the lip seal..so no matter how much fluid I put thru it the air would get sucked in..the seals themselves were fine..just dirty..I have the same setup with the lined calipers also..so dare I say advance auto had rebuild kits in stock for 14$ or so..that's what I did and found..real easy to do..even in the driveway if you had to.

 

If you truly are not getting a hard pedal, then one or more of these
-master is leaking internally,
-flex hoses are soft and ballooning,
-external leak, at any point including dirty or failed lips seal
-air in the system

 

Back in 2006 the previous owner put new stainless steel flex lines on it along with the sleeved lip seal. Calibers.I ordered a new set of factory bleeders maybe the check ***** just ain't closing all the way.you would think that air wouldn't get past the lipseals just sitting there while I bleed it with the power bleeder.Im sure stranger things have happened.the calibers are the only thing I haven't replaced in the past few months.I just hate throwing parts at it and still have the same problem.some of the guys I work with have dot 5 in their cars and have had no problems bleeding and maintaining a hard peddle.so Im thinking its not the type of fluid Im using.If I thought for a minute it was I would replace the calibers and rebuild the mastercylinder.flush out the lines and put dot 3 back in.they don't have this problem so my money is on something else.what a headache.

 

I use the dot 3 synthetic in mine..no problems yet..I dought the fluid is the problem also.

 

I use Dot 5 and just rebuilt my rear calipers with O-RING seals.

I use speed bleeders and use a Mity Vac hand pump to pull the brake fluid from the speed bleeders and works perfect!! No pedal "pumping" required.

As a final step I have someone in the car - crack the speed bleeder with a hose a fluid catch bottle and have them slowly push the pedal to the floor ONCE and confirm that there is no air coming out the caliper. (there is never any air at this point)

They hold the pedal to the floor then I close the bleeder and they let pedal up.

Pedal is at the very top and solid. Brakes are perfect!!

This takes 1 bottle (16oz) of DOT 5 fluid for the entire rear bleed and with perfect results.

And no muss no fuss. 15 min job. You can retire the power bleeder.

 

I tried it both ways.when you had the lip seals did you have trouble bleeding the brakes.how big of a pain was it to rebuild the calibers.I thought about just buying a rebuilt o ringed set.

 

The air could be getting sucked back into the system around the threads of your bleeders.
Try bleeding them with standard bleeders using the two person method.
Have your helper pump the brake pedal at least three times then hold. While they are holding pressure on the brake pedal you will open the bleeder about a quarter turn and allow the fluid (and any air) to flow out, as soon as the flow of the fluid slows down close the bleeder immediately. Your helper should be applying continuous pressure on the brake pedal until the bleeder is completely closed again. Then repeat the process on each bleeder until you no longer see bubbles.
Do each one like this in the proper sequence (furthest bleeder from the master cylinder to the closest). If you still have a soft pedal when finished there is definitely something else wrong in the brake system.

 

I have the lip style in mine..to rebuild all you need is an installed tool for the outer seal..I found a piece of pipe that was the same diameter..a lip seal tool..all tranny guys got those..lol..its a piece of piano wire pinched in a holder..costs maybe 5 bucks on the tool truck..then some brake clean and then some time..really basic stuff..you can get ether style for the rebuild kit..lip or o ring..I am not getting into that debate though as it has been beat to death.

 

If you are using a pressure bleeder, then you are not sucking air past the bleeders.

The proper system test proceedure:
Disconnect lines from master and install steel or brass plugs.
-Pressing on pedal as hard as you can, you should have no more than 1/4 to 1/2" movement and hold, even with a booster with engine not running.
-Next is to clamp off the flex lines, but since you have ss braided teflon lines you don't want to do that. Remove the lines from either the calipers or the flex line/steel line joint at the frame mount and get or make adapters to plug the lines at each wheel. You can make male plugs or female caps out of brass fittings with SAE 45° flares or just braze the fittings shut from old or short new inexpensive brake lines or flex hoses. I've just saved old brake steel lines and flex lines and made plugs or caps for every size imaginable.
You should have the same pedal movement as in first step.
-Next, connect each caliper, one at a time, and test the pedal. The one(s) tested, that will lose the pedal is the failing caliper. For pressure tests it doesn't matter if you have oring or lip seals.

You will have to use the pressure bleeder to purge air at each step after disconnecting joints. Just leave it connected for the whole process. Release bleeder pressure when disconnecting lines.
It sounds like a PITA. but you will stop you from guessing and pulling your hair out and ultimately save time and waste less fluid.

Rarely, after installing new pads and/or rotors, driving a few miles to bed the new pads etc may help. It can also help dislodge and collect sticky bubbles in the system.

 

I went ahead and ordered a set of rebuilt o ringed calibers.I was going to eventually and now looks like a good time.I plugged off the exit ports when I had the mastercylinder off for bench bleeding and the piston was hard as a rock.by the way this is my 3 rd one.new not rebuilt.I will put them on when they come in and try to bleed them again.at least it will eliminate the calibers anyway.