82 Power Steering Issue
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 130
Likes: 3
From: Goshen IN
82 Power Steering Issue
I've replaced everything underneath-pump(it's full), ram, valve(balanced and rebalanced numerous times), steering coupler, but I still think it isn't steering the way it should. With the wheels off the ground, taking hold of the wheel, I can turn it far right to far left with some effort. Still raised up, whether the engine is running or not, the effort to turn the steering wheel seems about the same. With front end down, setting on epoxy floor, it turns harder than I think it should. Driving it doesn't seem to bad, except it will not return to center when making a turn, it does part way. Also when going around a curve at a steady turn, it suddenly seems like it hits an easy place where it seems to want to turn easier. The steering gear adjustment screw has 3+ threads showing above the lock nut. I have very little if any free play, I'm thinking the steering gear is the problem(the only thing left).
Burning Brakes
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,116
Likes: 5
From: Middleburg Florida
Did you bleed the system when you replaced the parts? Not doing this properly can cause all sorts of odd issues. Just in case; lift the front wheels off the car, with the engine off, turn the steering wheel lock to lock a couple of times. Check the fluid and top off as needed. Then turn the wheel lock to lock again about a dozen times. Check the fluid and top off if needed again. Start then engine and turn the wheel lock to lock about a dozen times again and check the fluid. Then put the car on the ground and see if that helps.
Did you use the service manual procedure to balance the valve?
Did you use the service manual procedure to balance the valve?
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 37,637
Likes: 3,116
From: Crossville TN
Sounds like the control valve is not functioning correctly. You can rebuild it (my recommendation), you can buy a rebuilt unit, or you can buy a new one. If the latter two options don't work, YOU still have to do the work to replace them. If you do a good job with option #1, you don't have to do any more work.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 130
Likes: 3
From: Goshen IN
I did all the replacement work over a year ago. The control valve was a new replacement from Ecklers as were all the other parts, also the hoses were all changed at the same time. I used the manual instructions to replace all the parts. I've just put up with it all this time, but kept thinking something just isn't right. Since the steering wheel only partially returns by its self, I'm thinking it could be the steering gear. I don't know if PO could have messed with it at some time and messed it up(I'm 3rd owner). I realize that it won't steer as easy as the cars do today, but it seems to have more resistance than I think it should.
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 37,637
Likes: 3,116
From: Crossville TN
A C3 Corvette with power steering...operating properly...is quite easy to turn--even at a complete stop. There is really nothing in the steering cylinder to prevent that from happening, unless the piston rod is bent and binding up the system. The hoses can only leak--not prevent proper operation. The only components in the system that can cause what you are describing are the pump and the control valve. You mentioned that you replaced the pump and the control valve, at the same time, I believe. If the P/S system hasn't been right since, one or the other of those is your culprit. Odds are that it's the control valve. If the pump is making pressure, it is not the problem.
Jim Shea is the resident expert on steering systems. You might want to send a PM to him asking his advice. Certainly his technical papers on the P/S system would be of help if you choose to check out the pump performance and/or rebuild the control valve. I still suspect that the control valve is your problem. There have been many instances reported on this Forum that newly purchased control valves (both new and rebuilt) did not function properly...or at all...when installed. I suspect you have experienced the same thing.
Jim Shea is the resident expert on steering systems. You might want to send a PM to him asking his advice. Certainly his technical papers on the P/S system would be of help if you choose to check out the pump performance and/or rebuild the control valve. I still suspect that the control valve is your problem. There have been many instances reported on this Forum that newly purchased control valves (both new and rebuilt) did not function properly...or at all...when installed. I suspect you have experienced the same thing.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 6,640
Likes: 287
From: Ann Arbor Michigan
I have the same problem with my 71'. I replaced the OE control valve with a rebuilt unit and it leaked within a week. Replaced that one with a new unit (made in China POS) and now it steers just like the OP's and it takes 5-10 degrees of wheel rotation to get it to switch. Something is not machined correctly. So now I'm in the process of rebuilding the OE unit which I should have done in the first place. Will post results when I get it back on.
Gary
Gary
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,944
Likes: 20
From: The only Corvettes in Highett Victoria
Why not upgrade?
[QUOTE=Rmodeler;" I realize that it won't steer as easy as the cars do today, but it seems to have more resistance than I think it should.[/QUOTE]
G'day,
Rmodeler, you CAN make your car steer as easily as the cars do today, but it means replacing the steering box, control valve and ram with a Borgeson integral power steering box, www.borgeson.com. The power ram and control valve are located inside the steering box and the product is MADE IN AMERICA in Torrington Connecticut. Give Jeff or Gil a ring on 860-482-8283 and discuss it with them.
The good thing is that it replaces 60 year old technology and 30+ year old components with 21st Century parts and I guarantee that your car will be more pleasant to drive. I fitted one to my '74 coupe and it really made the world of difference to the way it drove. I would recommend that you have it done at a facility with a hoist, but it can be done in your driveway if you can safely raise the car at least 18" so that you can crawl under it. I did it this way but would not recommend it.
Finally, if you ever wanted to return it to original, such as selling it to an NCRS type, it's easy enough to do.
Hope this helps.
Regards from Down Under
aussiejohn
G'day,
Rmodeler, you CAN make your car steer as easily as the cars do today, but it means replacing the steering box, control valve and ram with a Borgeson integral power steering box, www.borgeson.com. The power ram and control valve are located inside the steering box and the product is MADE IN AMERICA in Torrington Connecticut. Give Jeff or Gil a ring on 860-482-8283 and discuss it with them.
The good thing is that it replaces 60 year old technology and 30+ year old components with 21st Century parts and I guarantee that your car will be more pleasant to drive. I fitted one to my '74 coupe and it really made the world of difference to the way it drove. I would recommend that you have it done at a facility with a hoist, but it can be done in your driveway if you can safely raise the car at least 18" so that you can crawl under it. I did it this way but would not recommend it.
Finally, if you ever wanted to return it to original, such as selling it to an NCRS type, it's easy enough to do.
Hope this helps.
Regards from Down Under
aussiejohn
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Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2006
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From: Crossville TN
Not to detract from AussieJohn's suggestion, but I don't think the Borgeson unit will operate and "easier" than the original C3 system....if it is "up to snuff". Of course, the direction you go to solve your problem is up to you.
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,944
Likes: 20
From: The only Corvettes in Highett Victoria
Basically I agree with you, but must point out that the Borgeson unit has a 12.7:1 ratio and that means about 2.7 turns LTL, compared with the standard 4 turns LTL, so driving WILL be easier. Also, the boost in the Borgeson box drops off in the "straight ahead" position, but increases with the amount of rotation of the steering wheel, up to the maximum when parking.
So, all in all, a Borgeson steering box will provide the driver with a more modern feeling when driving, more in tune with a late model daily driver, which most of us drive Monday to Friday.
Overall, the Borgeson system IS easier to drive than even the best restored original system. I know, because I have done the conversion on my own '74 coupe, and have ridden in cars owned by other "convertees" such as 682XLR8's '68 coupe and SolidLT1's '70 convertible.
In this case, modern IS better.
Regards from Down Under
aussiejohn
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 37,637
Likes: 3,116
From: Crossville TN
Ah, but would you advise someone to replace the entire 'stock' system if the only problem was the need to rebuild the control valve? If the entire system were defunct, then the best thing to do might be to purchase/install the Borgeson system (unless the owner was striving for originality). But, since just getting the system working seems to be the priority, that can likely be done for about $20 and 2-3 hours of time.
The choice is, of course, the poster's...but several hundred dollars and significant modification instead of the above alternative? I'm not seeing it. Maybe it's just me....
The choice is, of course, the poster's...but several hundred dollars and significant modification instead of the above alternative? I'm not seeing it. Maybe it's just me....
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,740
Likes: 3
From: Aurora Ontario
I've replaced everything underneath-pump(it's full), ram, valve(balanced and rebalanced numerous times), steering coupler, but I still think it isn't steering the way it should. With the wheels off the ground, taking hold of the wheel, I can turn it far right to far left with some effort. Still raised up, whether the engine is running or not, the effort to turn the steering wheel seems about the same. With front end down, setting on epoxy floor, it turns harder than I think it should. Driving it doesn't seem to bad, except it will not return to center when making a turn, it does part way. Also when going around a curve at a steady turn, it suddenly seems like it hits an easy place where it seems to want to turn easier. The steering gear adjustment screw has 3+ threads showing above the lock nut. I have very little if any free play, I'm thinking the steering gear is the problem(the only thing left).
It sounds like the problem is in the gear not the valve. I played with this a long time ago so I don't remember the proceedure. There is a way to adjust the the worm gear in the steering box so its tighter or looser. Too tight could damage it and cause it to bind. Some one may have the instructions on how to do the adjustment. My guess is you have an issue in the steering box.
Maybe this will help http://willcoxcorvette.com/instructi...ice_manual.pdf
Jim
Last edited by jdp6000; Jul 19, 2011 at 09:28 AM.
Burning Brakes
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,116
Likes: 5
From: Middleburg Florida
Rmodler, as info, the service manual bleeding procedure is not what's needed according to Mr. Shea....the procedure I described (as per Jim Shea) is what fixed my steering. You may still have a control valve issue (they're very easy to rebuild), but before you tear into it, you might want to try the bleeding route. Also, the flow control valve in these systems can sometimes cause issues like you're having. It's under the pump high pressure fitting, and can sometimes stick. If bleeding doesn't help, and since you have to drain the system to remove the control valve, it might be worth pulling the flow control valve first to see if it's stuck in the pump.
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 37,637
Likes: 3,116
From: Crossville TN
And a stuck pump valve would cause similar symptoms. If the pump is not supplying pressure...or, if the control valve is not properly directing that pressure, your problem would likely be present.Again, it would be good to send Jim_Shea a PM to ask his advice. Good luck.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 130
Likes: 3
From: Goshen IN
My video card burnt out on my computer, so been down a couple of days. Thanks for all the imput. I'm going to do a little more trouble shooting before I think about changing the steering gear. I did notice that the new steering valve is leaking just a little around the ram, but that shouldn't be a factor as to whether the valve is working or not. The pump and hoses were the last thing I replaced, after the ram and steering valve didn' make any difference. The pump replacement didn't make any difference either, that's the reason I thought it could be the steering gear.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 130
Likes: 3
From: Goshen IN
Finally getting around to do some more trouble shooting. Today I disconnected the pitman arm from the control valve(thinking the problem might be in the steering gear). With this disconnected, I could spin the steering wheel freely from stop to stop, in fact I could turn it stop to stop with the pitman arm. It was very smooth and very little if any play. So I guess I'm back to square one. Evidently one of the parts I've replaced is not working properly(pump,ram,control valve). I guess next is to check out the pump pressure.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 130
Likes: 3
From: Goshen IN
After re-assembly, front still raised, I rotated the steering stop to stop. I noticed that when I rotated to left stop and held it there , the rpm would drop about 50 rpm. But rotating to the right stop, there was no change in rpm. Also, just before getting to the right stop, I could see the tire jumping a little bit. Does this help narrow down or eliminate where the problem is?
