Frustrating Starter issues
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Joined: Jan 2011
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From: Wellesley Island New York
Frustrating Starter issues
69 350 4spd.
I am having serious issues with my starter. I am on my 3rd one and it just went out on me. Each one has cracked around the nose area. The first one was my fault as I had the incorrect bolts. The other two are a mystery. The current starter had been working for a few weeks now. Last night when I went to start her up, it was a little sluggish off the bat then started cranking fine. I gave it some gas to get the flow going to the card and it started acting like the battery was drained. I chalked this up to a dying battery. ( I have an electric fan that kicks on when the switch is engaged giving power to the car. This morning I re-attacked, adding fuel. I went to crank it and it was the dreaded loud bang, like someone had hit a steel plate with a sledge hammer. Now I'm happy that it is not the motor (yet) but the starter again is cracked. I have not been running a heat shield on the starter, but I haven't drove more than 5 miles at a time with it. What could be causing this issue.
I am having serious issues with my starter. I am on my 3rd one and it just went out on me. Each one has cracked around the nose area. The first one was my fault as I had the incorrect bolts. The other two are a mystery. The current starter had been working for a few weeks now. Last night when I went to start her up, it was a little sluggish off the bat then started cranking fine. I gave it some gas to get the flow going to the card and it started acting like the battery was drained. I chalked this up to a dying battery. ( I have an electric fan that kicks on when the switch is engaged giving power to the car. This morning I re-attacked, adding fuel. I went to crank it and it was the dreaded loud bang, like someone had hit a steel plate with a sledge hammer. Now I'm happy that it is not the motor (yet) but the starter again is cracked. I have not been running a heat shield on the starter, but I haven't drove more than 5 miles at a time with it. What could be causing this issue.
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Joined: Oct 2007
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From: Austin Texas
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you need to verify your starter setup, which flyweel do you have ?
DO NOT just bolt up a starter and go.
you checked your starter drive gear, to flywheel clearances and adjusted ?
DO NOT Assume the parts boy are giving you the correct starter.
seeing how your in the buying starter mode;
I would suggest a mini gear drive starter, over heavy oem, any day.
Heat shield has nothing to do with this problem,
I think your putting the wrong starter on.
DO NOT just bolt up a starter and go.
you checked your starter drive gear, to flywheel clearances and adjusted ?
DO NOT Assume the parts boy are giving you the correct starter.
seeing how your in the buying starter mode;
I would suggest a mini gear drive starter, over heavy oem, any day.
Heat shield has nothing to do with this problem,
I think your putting the wrong starter on.
Last edited by 69Vett; Aug 5, 2011 at 01:11 PM.
Drifting
Joined: Dec 2009
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From: Porterville Ca
Third starter, get ready for some PITA. First poster is correct. There are different flywheels/flexplates and also starters. Assuming the starter is still in one piece, disconnect the battery, remove the starter and remove the solenoid. Reinstall the starter and manually engage the starter drive by pulling the plunger (the cylinder that resides in the solenoid) towards the front of your car. Now check and see how well they engage. If you're close (starter gears only slightly bind), you may just need some shims (available at the parts store). If you're binding, you're going to need to identify the correct starter for your flywheel/bell housing. Someone may have installed the wrong starter, bellhousing, flywheel at some time. Did your original starter crack, or did it just die of old age? Is your original core still at the parts store? Compare the position of the bolts and number of starter drive teeth to the original starter, you'll probably find the answer there. If your original starter nose drive was cast iron, stick with that, the later aluminum housing probably won't work correctly. 
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From: Wellesley Island New York
I can see the wrong starter may be the problem. I don't know it the original was cast iron or not. I took it to a starter shop today, and was told that the for the smaller of the 2 flywheels used did not have a cast iron housing. I think it was either 11.5 or 10.5 being the smaller and 12 or 11 being the larger of the 2. It may be an incorrect flywheel. How can I check?
This starter was working great for about a month and then this started happening. It would only make that crazy noise when I just mashed the starter button down. This new starter (5th one now), If I push just lightly on the push button it will turn slowly then go to a continuous clicking noise. So this leads me to believe its the shims. I have tried to measure the gap with this new starter but I dont have enough room to work the gauge in there. At least I can check and figure out some sort of problem.
This starter was working great for about a month and then this started happening. It would only make that crazy noise when I just mashed the starter button down. This new starter (5th one now), If I push just lightly on the push button it will turn slowly then go to a continuous clicking noise. So this leads me to believe its the shims. I have tried to measure the gap with this new starter but I dont have enough room to work the gauge in there. At least I can check and figure out some sort of problem.
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Joined: Oct 2007
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From: Austin Texas
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count the teeth on the flywheel, mark a tooth and start counting.
manully turning the fly wheel as you go.
Brace won't hurt,and I would use it if I had a stock starter. but consider this...
gear reduction starters provide much more torque that OEM.
and they don't use the factory brace, study up on the flywheel you have,
and the starter you need, don't go buy the pep boys rebuild cheap starters.
Learn how to manually engage the starter so you can see and measure, the clearance.
are the starters 2 mounting holes, straight with the block or angled ?
this us tells which starter your using.
also inspect the ring gear on the flywheel, for damage at this point.
manully turning the fly wheel as you go.
Brace won't hurt,and I would use it if I had a stock starter. but consider this...
gear reduction starters provide much more torque that OEM.
and they don't use the factory brace, study up on the flywheel you have,
and the starter you need, don't go buy the pep boys rebuild cheap starters.
Learn how to manually engage the starter so you can see and measure, the clearance.
are the starters 2 mounting holes, straight with the block or angled ?
this us tells which starter your using.
also inspect the ring gear on the flywheel, for damage at this point.
Last edited by 69Vett; Aug 5, 2011 at 06:52 PM. Reason: Dang keyboard ! :)
Le Mans Master
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From: mount holly NC
2025 c3 ('74-'82) of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
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If you disconnect the battery wires (at the top of the solenoid) and apply 12 volts to the "S" terminal (the small terminal closest to the block) the starter gear will engage with the flywheel and you can check how they mesh.
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Burning Brakes
Joined: May 2007
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From: LaMoille Illinois
had the same exact issue with my 71 chevelle finnaly figured out my 69 4 bolt 350 block had not been milled down enough at the factory and my starter with no shims was to far away from the flywheel. should be 5/16ths gap between the starter shaft and the outside edge of the teeth on the flywheel, mine was almost a 1/2 inch with zero shims. so i had a new starter milled down an 1/8th of an inch and havent had a problem since that was 2 yrs ago. went through 4 starters and 2 flywheels before that in 2 yrs!!
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2006
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From: Crossville TN
If you don't have a front brace on the starter, it will try to twist out of it's present location when you apply power. There is a lot of torque developed by the starter...enough to start a hot big block engine, anyway.
Buy the front starter bracket at a parts store or even from a salvage yard. (Most SB Chevy engines use the same starter/bracket configuration.)
Buy the front starter bracket at a parts store or even from a salvage yard. (Most SB Chevy engines use the same starter/bracket configuration.)
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From: Wellesley Island New York
I went under today to figure it out. I removed the solenoid and manually plunged the gear out. It seems to be tight coming out. I can not get a gauge in there to measure the gap between the rod and the teeth. If I would loosen the bolts and push up on the starter it would fit smoothly and disengage.
The starter I am using is the straight across bolt pattern not staggered.
I have it shimmed with 3 shims now, and it is still not pulling back from the teeth.. Starting to get more frustrating, because it had worked before..
The starter I am using is the straight across bolt pattern not staggered.
I have it shimmed with 3 shims now, and it is still not pulling back from the teeth.. Starting to get more frustrating, because it had worked before..
Drifting
Joined: Dec 2009
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From: Porterville Ca
I'm thinking the starter teeth/gears are binding due to mismatched starter/flywheel issues. Your posts say it sounds like a weak battery and that it doesn't want to engage.Sounds like it's binding to me.Tha'ts why you're breaking starters. Perhaps some other members can post pictures of "correct" starters for a 69 350. I'm suresomeone has theirs out for some such reason already...maybe the OP can post pics too!
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From: Wellesley Island New York
Ok I took some measurements today. The Flywheel is a 10 1/2 inch 153 teeth. The starter has 9 teeth. I imagine they all have 9 teeth but the way they are angled is what is key. The auto parts stores I have been to, most of their techs are clueless to the older cars or even clueless in general. I shimmed today and had almost a half inch of shim before the gear would disengage from the flywheel. It still wont turn over though.. The weird thing is how it worked before. I may have been sold the wrong starter this time around, or when I had the cone replaced at a shop, they put the wrong cone on. The guys at the starter shop seemed to be a lot more knowledgeable and I doubt the error is on their side, however, it does seem to fit different with the knew cone.. Something weird.
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From: Austin Texas
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what is your goal of shimming the starter ? ?
#1 you need to verify the gap between the starter drive gear and the flywheel.
a common large paper clip is about .030 thick, this gap is verifid by manully pulling the starter drive gear into the flywheel. you should have app. room to insert the clip/gauge.
SECOND check, how far does the starter drive gear push on to the flywheel teeth.
(your checking how much teeth engagement into the flywheel teeth)
you need atleast 50% meshing of the gears.
if the bendix starter drive does not return freely into the housing your binding something.
#1 you need to verify the gap between the starter drive gear and the flywheel.
a common large paper clip is about .030 thick, this gap is verifid by manully pulling the starter drive gear into the flywheel. you should have app. room to insert the clip/gauge.
SECOND check, how far does the starter drive gear push on to the flywheel teeth.
(your checking how much teeth engagement into the flywheel teeth)
you need atleast 50% meshing of the gears.
if the bendix starter drive does not return freely into the housing your binding something.
Last edited by 69Vett; Aug 6, 2011 at 06:26 PM.
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From: Wellesley Island New York
Thats why I was shimming, because the bendix gear would not go back. What is causing this to bind? Wrong starter perhaps? Ive been looking all day at high torque starters, I'm going to upgrade, but I need to make sure there is not a bigger problem. I checked with a paper clip and the clearance was good, it just wouldnt disengage. It looks like the gear kicks in more than 50 percent of the way through the flywheel also.
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From: Austin Texas
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who installed the solinoid ? Did they incude the large spring when the solinoid was installed ?
fly wheel teeth still good ?
Manually test your starter out of the car.
Carefully use jumper cables and connect up battery, then jumper the start terminal,
and hang on to the starter, release several times, does the drive gear pull back ?
fly wheel teeth still good ?
Manually test your starter out of the car.
Carefully use jumper cables and connect up battery, then jumper the start terminal,
and hang on to the starter, release several times, does the drive gear pull back ?
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From: Wellesley Island New York
Whoever re-manufactured the starter put the solenoid in, the large spring is there.
The flywheel seems good the only thing is, that the teeth on the side closest to the starter seems to be starting to wear down.
The drive gear does pull back when bench testing.
The flywheel seems good the only thing is, that the teeth on the side closest to the starter seems to be starting to wear down.
The drive gear does pull back when bench testing.
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2006
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From: Crossville TN
Do you, or do you not, have a front brace on the starter? If you don't have one, it won't matter how many shims you put in it or even what starter you have, it will damage the starter! If you don't believe it, have someone else attempt to start the car while you look underneath and watch what happens to the starter.... 