question about setting hydraulic valves
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,368
Likes: 9
From: Colorado
I use the EO/IC and twist. My bet is that the first thing people do when they start the car is listen for clatter. Sooo it's an oft argued approach but I do the adjustment so I can start the car and then use a valve cover with a window cut out so I can adjust the lash with the engine running. That is what has worked for me without fail. 
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 37,637
Likes: 3,117
From: Crossville TN
To "listen for clatter", the engine would need to be running. There is no need to run the engine when setting hydraulic lifters.
You guys can 'twist'; I can 'twist' or 'shake'; but newbies have trouble with doing the 'twist'. That's just the way it is...
You guys can 'twist'; I can 'twist' or 'shake'; but newbies have trouble with doing the 'twist'. That's just the way it is...
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 6,231
Likes: 65
From: Seattle WA
St. Jude Donor '14
I've shown 8 - both methods - and all of them had no issue at all with the twist, finding it very simple. Anyone in the Puget Sound, Washington area that wants to be a test subject, drop me a PM
I'm not trying to say one method is "better", though I have my own opinion, but I do challenge this continued contention that twisting is harder for people that haven't done it before given that my experience is exactly the opposite.
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 37,637
Likes: 3,117
From: Crossville TN
Billa...
None of those folks had issue with the 'twist' because you were there to physically show them how to do it and explain in detail what to look for. But, you can't do that over the internet. BTW, how many of them could not use the 'shake' method to find "zero lash". If you are honest about it, I would guess that NONE of them had any problem finding zero lash with that method.
We all know that "you know best" on everything you discuss. Why don't we just let the poster try both methods and use the one that works for him?
None of those folks had issue with the 'twist' because you were there to physically show them how to do it and explain in detail what to look for. But, you can't do that over the internet. BTW, how many of them could not use the 'shake' method to find "zero lash". If you are honest about it, I would guess that NONE of them had any problem finding zero lash with that method.
We all know that "you know best" on everything you discuss. Why don't we just let the poster try both methods and use the one that works for him?
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 11,874
Likes: 263
From: Arlington Va Current ride 04 vert, previous vettes: 69 vert, 77 resto mod
what the hell....i use the method Lars taught us.....use the distributor spark plug tower and mark the tower position on the distributor base and then follow the rotor around adjusting the valves on the cylinder the rotor is pointing to, using the spin method (hydraulic lifters) it was so freaking easy it was embarassing
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 6,231
Likes: 65
From: Seattle WA
St. Jude Donor '14
You speak for the entire board? So the simple answer is "none"; always easier to attack the person than to answer a simple question that you don't have the answer for.
I noted both ways work - you were the one that noted that the "only" way for a newbie was to use the "shake" method - which is what I challenged and you've stated no basis for.
Same old story...
Last edited by billla; Aug 26, 2011 at 12:16 PM.
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Drifting
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,682
Likes: 3
From: League City TX
Every time somebody comes on here and posts about an engine that wont start, or runs poorly after they adjusted their hydraulic lifters, they did it using the spin method.
The purpose of adjusting hydraulic lifters is to remove all up and down slop, and add a bit of vertical preload.
Moving the pushrod in the direction that you are actually adjusting just makes more sense, IMO anyway.
P.S. - I only replied to bobs77vet because it was close to the end of the thread. I'm not trying to argue with Bob.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 6,231
Likes: 65
From: Seattle WA
St. Jude Donor '14
The funny thing is that probably the most common reference here is Lars' paper...which uses the twist method.
Most common issue is that the engine isn't correctly positioned - not that they incorrectly find zero lash.
I don't know why something so simple gets so much pushback...
Last edited by billla; Aug 26, 2011 at 02:25 PM.
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 11,874
Likes: 263
From: Arlington Va Current ride 04 vert, previous vettes: 69 vert, 77 resto mod
For some people it is, but consider this....
Every time somebody comes on here and posts about an engine that wont start, or runs poorly after they adjusted their hydraulic lifters, they did it using the spin method.
The purpose of adjusting hydraulic lifters is to remove all up and down slop, and add a bit of vertical preload.
Moving the pushrod in the direction that you are actually adjusting just makes more sense, IMO anyway.
P.S. - I only replied to bobs77vet because it was close to the end of the thread. I'm not trying to argue with Bob.
Every time somebody comes on here and posts about an engine that wont start, or runs poorly after they adjusted their hydraulic lifters, they did it using the spin method.
The purpose of adjusting hydraulic lifters is to remove all up and down slop, and add a bit of vertical preload.
Moving the pushrod in the direction that you are actually adjusting just makes more sense, IMO anyway.
P.S. - I only replied to bobs77vet because it was close to the end of the thread. I'm not trying to argue with Bob.
Last edited by bobs77vet; Aug 26, 2011 at 02:31 PM.
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,682
Likes: 3
From: League City TX
You really think I bookmarked them all? 
In general I dont care how people do it, as long as its working for them.
But every single case that I can remember on this forum and several others where there was a problem involved people trying to find zero lash by spinning the pushrod.
It obviously causes problems for some people.
In general I dont care how people do it, as long as its working for them.
But every single case that I can remember on this forum and several others where there was a problem involved people trying to find zero lash by spinning the pushrod.
It obviously causes problems for some people.
Race Director
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 16,528
Likes: 53
From: Dayton, Ohio
As Billla says engine positioning is critical.
I wonder if pushing this "0" clearance is a good thing ?
Maybe making sure you have almost 0 clearance is better,surely better than being too tight.
So what if you have .001 or even .002,for gosh sakes your preload ranges from say 1/2 to 3/4 turn,there's aprox. .017 difference there.
This is not brain surgery.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 6,231
Likes: 65
From: Seattle WA
St. Jude Donor '14
You make the claim again - but nothing to back it up, so...
Race Director
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 16,528
Likes: 53
From: Dayton, Ohio
I gotta tell you guys something funny but first.....
I think the "spinning" is misunderstood by first-timers , I think they believe that at .001 the rods spins and at .000 the rod spins and a tiny bit more the rod locks up solid,which is where I think the problem is.
When in reality if you go a tiny bit tight and wait a few seconds the rod will spin again just not as freely as it should and the spinning is turning , not spinning freely.
I went to the garage to make a little video of exactly what I'm saying above,I took it to 0 free spinning ,I turned the nut a little further and the rod became very hard to turn,I waited for a few seconds thinking it would turn fairly easy,it didn't what the heck, scratching my head,.............. dang motor has solids in it.
Looking back at the video I have this WTF look on my face.
I think the "spinning" is misunderstood by first-timers , I think they believe that at .001 the rods spins and at .000 the rod spins and a tiny bit more the rod locks up solid,which is where I think the problem is.
When in reality if you go a tiny bit tight and wait a few seconds the rod will spin again just not as freely as it should and the spinning is turning , not spinning freely.
I went to the garage to make a little video of exactly what I'm saying above,I took it to 0 free spinning ,I turned the nut a little further and the rod became very hard to turn,I waited for a few seconds thinking it would turn fairly easy,it didn't what the heck, scratching my head,
.............. dang motor has solids in it. Looking back at the video I have this WTF look on my face.
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,682
Likes: 3
From: League City TX
I went to the garage to make a little video of exactly what I'm saying above,I took it to 0 free spinning ,I turned the nut a little further and the rod became very hard to turn,I waited for a few seconds thinking it would turn fairly easy,it didn't what the heck, scratching my head, .............. dang motor has solids in it.
.............. dang motor has solids in it. 
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 6,231
Likes: 65
From: Seattle WA
St. Jude Donor '14
...but this is not how this is done. The rocker should be loosened until the pushrod rotates freely...then tightened slowly until the first hint of drag is felt...backing off and re-tightening a bit if needed to feel for zero lash.
The push is against the spring...so it's really not going to "back off" after a minute. There's no bleed-down - if the engine isn't running then there's no pressurized oil to push the cup up.
Last edited by billla; Aug 26, 2011 at 04:04 PM.