'69 Chevy':

Thanks for replying to my problem. OK, I've done all of this already & as far as I can tell, the valve is centered. Once I centered the valve, hooked the slave shock back up to the frame mount. I started the car while the wheels were still off the ground. The steering wheel remained 'straight' & did not move at all, as well as the front wheels did not move in either direction.

Now, my Question is: After the shock 'plunger rod' is disconnected from the frame bracket & the vehicle is started, if the rod should move, how fast will it move, either in or out?

Once I had the rod disconnected & started the car, the rod did not move at all. I believed that it was fully retracted, but I'm not sure.
Then I proceeded to slowly turn the 'nut' on the valve in the direction so that the rod would start extending, which it did. But, it barely 'creeped' out. Once I saw it moving outward, I turned the nut the oppposite way, counting the turns as I went, until the rod once again started to retract back into the shock, I then stopped turning the nut & then proceeded to turn it back in the opposite direction 'half' the number of turns & stopped.

The number of turns were 8, & then backed off to 4 turns. This to me is according to the instructions that you sent me.

But, my Question is, how fast should the rod extend & retract? Like I said, mine barely 'creeped' in & out. Does this make a difference?

These are my Questions to anyone who had experience centering the control valve & not just someone sending me instructions on how to do it. I already got the instructions.

Thanks again for your reply !

Cruisin' Davey G !

 

Hi 'Gale Banks '80':

OK, you're the first person I talked to that has a 'front-runner' on their vette. All I gotta say is, wish I had the X-tra 'bread' to 'spring' for a 'rack & pinion' for this car

Righ now, everything is 'up in the air' as to Y this system is not working, from 'air' in the system to suspecting any one of the components 'failing'.

I 'checked' what you said about fluid 'gushing out' of the reservoir, with the cap off & car started. It 'gushed' out all right & probably 'cost' me another quart of 'Royal Purple'

Also, I ran the car, with the reservoir cap on & then after the car 'warmed up', I turned it off & took the cap off & checked the fluid. It was pretty warm to the touch.

So, with those simple checks, I'm beginning to believe that the pump is not 'suspect' at this time.

My Kid sez, "The Old Man's Making a Mountain Out of a Mole Hill on all of this"

He seems to think that it's just 'trapped' air in the system.

One other thing: The resevoir is mounted to the Radiator cradle, in the nose of the car, on the driver's side, pretty much in the same place the stock air condition 'drier' is mounted on the passenger's side. So, this makes the feed line to the pump, from the reservoir, & the return line, from the control valve, to the reservoir, rather 'long'. The lines, by the way are all braided stainless pressure lines. they were made up by 'Parker' pressure lines. The lines from the control valve to the shock are stock lines, both are pressure lines.

I see no visible 'leaks' in the system.

Sooooo, my kid is going on his 'gut feeling' & will continue to 'bleed' the system.

I, however, am looking for way to 'test' the control valve for 'failure'. It's been rebuilt & for all I know, it could be internally leaking.

Oh, Well ..... Back to the Drawing Board !

Cruisin' Davey G !

 

We all know you're a happy guy with a cool vette and plenty of enthusiasm, so no worries - its good energy.

Bold type tends to convey emphasis to something in a forum like this - since we can't hear each other talking its all we have to mimic speech. So when everything is in bold it looks like your flapping your arms about everything

As far as it being trapped air in the system - very doubtful. However, is your pump self priming? A stock on is. Years ago before I knew much, I would put a power steering system together dry, fill the pump up and let it prime itself and bleed the system out on its own.

I'm wondering if you need to hold the resevior up higher than the pump for a bit to let it prime? Also, disconnect the high pressure side and put it in a bucket and see if its pushing fluid through.

 

Couple of thoughts on your steering. First, starting with the most obvious, make sure you've bled the system throuroughly and you're topped off. To really make sure there's no air in the system, with the wheels off the ground and the engine off, turn the steering wheel lock to lock about twenty times, making sure your fluid is full after the first few times. Once your done, check the fluid again, and start the engine for just a few seconds, shut it down and check the fluid again. Start it up and turn the wheels a half dozen or so times lock to lock. Now your sure you've taken all the air out of the system.

For the control valve. The cylinder doesn't move very fast, at idle, it takes about three seconds for full travel one way or the other. Follow the centering directions, and you're good, you're just turning the hut under the dust cover to center it. Finally, put the car on the ground, start it up and at about 1500 RPM, turn the wheels a few times lock to lock.

I've had similar issues you have and these steps took care of it for me...

 

Does "Royal Purple" make power steering fluid? If not, why is it in the powersteering system? (Ignore question if they do make P/S fluid...)

Once the control valve is centered, the rod will not move in or out. However, since you adjusted the nut both ways....and the rod actually moved in and out, as expected....it appears to me that your P/S system IS working. If you are expecting the steering wheel to feel like "Dad's Cadillac", forget it. The Corvette P/S does reduce the wheel load a bunch, but it doesn't float around with just a touch.

If you want to check the difference between "with" and "without" P/S, just try it with it operating first, then remove the drive belt from the pump and try it without. If you still feel no difference, then your control valve likely has a problem.

 

Davey G,

You have a great looking car (and engine!!!) but I'm surprised that you have stuck with the factory power assisted manual steering box. You should think seriously about dumping that sixty year old "power" steering design and get into the twenty first century with a Borgeson integral power steering box. It costs about $460 and you'll need either a Drag Link Adapter to replace the troublesome control valve, or a manual drag link.

You'll also need a Borgeson rag joint to connect the box to the steering shaft and a couple of hoses to connect to your pump/reservoir.

All up, you'll be well under a grand, compared to about twice that amount if you consider a R&P system. Don't go this way, as it will give you bump steer and you won't get a full steering lock.

Use the Borgeson system and you'll have trouble-free steering with a great 12.7:1 ratio and full steering lock. I've fitted one to my '74 coupe and it has vastly improved the steering feel. You won't regret it!

Regards from Down Under.

aussiejohn

 

Dude--

Great looking car, and wish I could offer advice on how to fix your PS woes... Keep your head up as I know your frustration level is way above thermo-nuclear levels... Keep working with the manufacturer to get this thing running correctly... Can't wait to see the smile on your face once you get this figured out...

Rogman

 

To Everybody that has posted [or 'chimed-in'] on this 'thread', I would just like to thank you all for your replies & suggestions.

As for what I've done so far:

I've 'bled' the system so much that if I have to turn the steering wheel, with the wheels off the ground, one more time, I'm going to 'scream'

I 'centered' the valve, at least I think I did. As I said B4, the rod barely moved in & out, Much Longer than the 3 seconds or so, someone 'posted' & suggested. More like 20 to 30 seconds, or it seemed that way.

I've been doing 'process of elimination' as I go along.

UPDATE:

Well, today, the 'kid' & I decided to check out the pump iteslf. 1st we took out the 'pressure check valve' & checked it out. It's working. Not stuck or jambed or anything like that; moves pretty 'freely'.
Next, we diconnected the pressure line going from the pump to the control valve, to see if the pump's actually pumping fluid. Well, it's NOT Sooooo, that leads me to believe that the pump is not working at all. It's got fluid in it, as we found out when we took out the pressure check valve. But the pump seems NOT to be pumping at all, as in nada niltch, no fluid is coming out of the disconnected line to the control valve. Also, the pump is not making any noise, or growling sounds, that pumps make if there's no fluid in it.

At this point, the 'kid' is in the process of contacting Zoops to let them know the pump they sent us is not working. Once we get that 'cleared; up, we can proceed. So the steering 'woes' are at a 'stand-still'

Hopefully, we'll get this 'stinkin' power steering problem figured out soon. Geez .... The 'Crap' ya go through to have a nice car !

Thanks again for everyone posting !


Cruisin' Davey G ! :

 

Aussie John: Hey, thank's for posting from the 'Land Down Under'

OK, you got my interest. Tell me about this Borgeson Steering box. I'm assuming this 'box' has the pressure & return lines right in it. This is what I want.

If you got a web-site for this place, please post it.

Yeah .... My 'Vettes is like 'Old School' meets 'New School'

For all intense & purposes .... it's a 'Street Rod', with a Corvette Body & Interior.

Bee 'Cool' Mate !

Cruisin' Davey G !

 

Davey G, if you have a pump problem, the Borgenson box won't help...it works off the pump too. That being said, as I understand it, it's a great mod to the steering...

 

I had a similar problem. Everything hooked up right, rebuilt pump and control valve, new hoses. After searching the forum for answers, it turned out that it all pointed to my pressure check valve. When I took the pump off to inspect everything, it turned out I had installed the pressure check valve the wrong way round! Doh!

 

Here are some links I found in the Forum about the Borgeson power steeing system. I read through all of them and decided my manual steering car would benefit so I installed the full kit. I rate it .

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c3-t...ring-gear.html

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c3-g...n-options.html

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c3-t...geson-g-b.html

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c3-g...n-results.html

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c1-a...-steering.html

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c3-t...-steering.html

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c3-t...g-install.html

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c1-a...onversion.html

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/index.php

Hope this helps

 

Check Valve is OK.

UPDATE:

OK, after checking everything again. The 'Kid' & I are now questioning the line hook-up to the Pump. We did it according to Zoops instructions via telephone. We wanted to make real sure on how the lines are hooked-up, because we had to have custom lines made & that means 'Mucho' Denerio. We were assured by Zoops that we were hooking up the lines correctly. BUT, now I'm starting to question that.

Sooooo, gonna reverse the lines to the pump from the remote reservoir & from the pump to the control valve.

Will keep everyone Posted !

Oh, well, we'll figure this out one way or another !

Cruisin' Davey G !

 

Hey, Pete Z06:

Yeah, I did a search on the net too & found a lot of info about this system. Hell, wish I would of knew about this borgeson box B4 having my stock box rebuild, putting the engine in & installing the header side exhaust.

Soooo, if I do decide to go with the Borgeson 'Deal', I gotta do tons of work that I really don't wanna do.

BUT, I'll use this System as a 'Plan B', if I fail to get the old stock system to work.

Thanks for your Help & for the 'heads-up' on this steering system.

Holy, Crap, Batman, isn't working on these 'Dreams' Wonderful !


Cruisin' Davey G !

 

Davey, if you do decide on the Borgeson the install should go easy. Mine went right in with Hooker Super Comps - the job is basically removing and installing the steering box. That and Borgeson's drag link adapter to replace the control valve, or a manual drag link. After all the work you have done on the car, it should be a piece of cake!

Pete

 

Hi Jim:

OK, I just Learned that you're the formost X-Pert on Corvette Steering.

I've got a Question.

Does the Port on the Pump, that has the 'Check-Valve' [Pressure Relief Valve] go to the Control Valve ?????

The GM Type II Pump that I have, has 2 ports both with reversed flairs for fitted lines & not like the stock GM pump, where the reservoir is part of the pump assembly & has a fitted port for the pressure side & a barbed hose fitting for the return line, since that line is not pressurized, Correct???

Soooo, my thinking is, I may have theses 2 lines 'crossed'. BUT, the guys @ zoops told my son how to hook it up via a telephone conversation & I'm beginning to think there was a 'cross-up' in the translation, during their conversation.

So, all I need to know is if the port with the check valve goes to the control valve & I shoud be good to go.

Thanks for posting here. Your 'insight' will be greatly appreciated.

Cruisin' Davey G !

 

Hope that this helps.
The flow control valve is right behind the discharge fitting. You would need to unscrew the fitting (1 inch hex). The valve is right behind it. There should be a spring pushing the valve out of the pump bore (although you may need a magnet to pull it out). There should be a small hex nut with a screen on one end of the valve. That nut should be on the pump side of the valve bore - not the discharge fitting side.

There is one other thing that comes to mind. I know that because of serpentine belt drives that have been used through the years, some Saginaw pumps were manufactured to operate with opposite rotation than was used for years and years in the past. I am not an expert on power steering pumps so I don't know the detail as to how you would determine a reverse rotation pump from a conventional pump. You might call Zoops and ask them about reverse rotation pumps.
Jim

 

Hi Jim:

Thanks a Million for posting: I read it & it confirms what I learned on my own about this pump.

What I believe is: When My kid called Zoops to 'Clairify' the line hook ups, because the instructions we got with the pump were 'vague', they must of assumed that we automatically knew that the pressure relief valve goes to the pressure side of the pump.

I never thought about this, because whenever I hooked up a power steering pump to a system, in the past, it always had the reservoir attached & only 1 threaded line hook up, which is the pressure side of the pump & the other side (suction) always had just a regular hose clamp hook up, because it was the non-pressure side. So, when I got this pump & my kid called Zoops & they told him how to hook it up, I never gave it much though, since I figured they knew what they're talking about.

AND, at the same time, I never gave it much thought that maybe, there was an outside chance that either my kid or Zoop Mis-Understood each other when he called. I guess it happens.

Anyway, my kid went to get a 90 degree hydraulic fitting this morning so we can 'switch' the lines like you have just pointed out & the way I was suspecting anyway.

As for your comment on the reverse flow. Zoops told me that the pump is matched to this front-runner system, as well as the water pump, which is also 'reversed flow'. Anyway, I'll find out when My kid gets back with the fitting we need & reverse those lines.

Just when U think you know all there is about car stuff, along comes something new & throws a wrench into the 'mix' & screws your head up !

"It's always the easiest & most overlook way that a problem will exist".

Thanks again, Jim, for your help !

Cruisin' Davey G !

 

. Same pump we run on our the Late models. Sounds Crazy, But please check that there no caps or covers left on your lines when you connect them. Some line caps are inserts type or plugs. I know, Its been done before. LOL, Trust me. Car looks Awsome!!

 

Well, after straighting out the line problem, we now got power steering.

It's working pretty good, Wheel turns a hell of a lot better than B4 & much easier.

Can't believe all it was, was a miscommunication on how the lines were to go.

Only thing now is, the pump 'growls' somewhat. But, I suspect that's because there's some air still trapped inside the pump & the syetem from running the enging with the pump hooked up wrong.

But, at least the power system's working.

Now, it's off to the alignment shop, then to the interior shop. It most likely won't be 'till spring until I'll really get to drive it any great distance as 'Ole Man Winter' is knocking on the door.

Thanks to everybody for posting & helping me out. This Forum Rocks !

Cruisin Davey G !