Solid or hydrolic lifters? 327ci
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Racer
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From: Central Valley Cali
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Sounds like you definitely have hydraulics then. Solids would have eventually killed the motor with 4 dead cylinders.
How are you going to adjust them cold? It can be done with the engine off....but you need to REALLY pay attention and have an idea of how they act. You have to get valve in proper position and be able to feel when they are at zero lash...which isn't hard...but takes a little practice or someone there with you to show you how to ck them.
Having it warm and running will make sure they are set right...though messy.
Just get a can of engine cleaner and head to the car wash when done!
JIM
How are you going to adjust them cold? It can be done with the engine off....but you need to REALLY pay attention and have an idea of how they act. You have to get valve in proper position and be able to feel when they are at zero lash...which isn't hard...but takes a little practice or someone there with you to show you how to ck them.
Having it warm and running will make sure they are set right...though messy.
Just get a can of engine cleaner and head to the car wash when done!
JIM
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For what you are doing I'd say put them 1/2-3/4 of a turn. They will be fine.
JIM
JIM
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Racer
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From: Central Valley Cali
I have adjusted them before succesfuly by spinning the push rod to where it just stops. I have done this before on the engine stand. I also use to do vw engines (a lot) and when you do high performance with the diffrent engine alloys it is not uncommen to set solid lifters to zero lash or close to it.
Racer
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From: Northern New Jersey
I have adjusted them before succesfuly by spinning the push rod to where it just stops. I have done this before on the engine stand. I also use to do vw engines (a lot) and when you do high performance with the diffrent engine alloys it is not uncommen to set solid lifters to zero lash or close to it.
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Be VERY careful about that spinning to stop deal. With hydraulics you can often still spin them even while you are compressing the plunger in the lifter. The lifter actually compresses pretty easily sometimes and you won't know it. Then you tighten it another turn and bad things happen.
If you're going to do them cold and not running...practice feeling *up and down* movement of the pushrod. Slowly tighten it until it just goes away...and I mean JUST goes away. Be very careful you aren't feeling lifter plunger movement. Then tighten it the extra amount. When you're all done take a look at the exposed threads on each stud to get an idea that they are all set the same.
Good luck.
JIM
If you're going to do them cold and not running...practice feeling *up and down* movement of the pushrod. Slowly tighten it until it just goes away...and I mean JUST goes away. Be very careful you aren't feeling lifter plunger movement. Then tighten it the extra amount. When you're all done take a look at the exposed threads on each stud to get an idea that they are all set the same.
Good luck.
JIM
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Thread Starter
Racer
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From: Central Valley Cali
Thanks for the insight. Part of the problem and why i thought i had solid lifters is right as spun the pushrod and just as it stoped. I then turned the nut the half turn and the valve went down the lifter did not bleed down. So i think i will try checking the up down movment of the pushrod instead this time around.
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You can cut a slot in an old set of valve covers so you can get at the nut and the oil will stay in the motor. It "usually" just drips out the end of the pushrod it's not like it going to spray out all over the place, however I have seen that on a race engine 
Le Mans Master
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St. Jude Donor '14
The "spin" method works just fine - you're feeling for just a hint of drag, not any real pressure and certainly not "when it stops". Try it - spin it loose while tightening, and when you feel ANY resistance to spinning, that's zero lash. The spring is pretty light - just a couple of pounds pressure - but it's easy to find zero lash spinning.
Find the approach that works for you - but try 'em both
Here's a good article from Car Craft...
http://www.carcraft.com/howto/ccrp_0...aft/index.html
I'm a little worried in this whole thread that there's still not 100% certainty what type of lifter is in use...
Find the approach that works for you - but try 'em both
Here's a good article from Car Craft...http://www.carcraft.com/howto/ccrp_0...aft/index.html
"Under a tree, in a remote corner of the earth, there is a guy adjusting his hydraulic valve lash with the valve cover off and the engine running. Yes, it's true. We've seen it. Proof is that you can buy valve covers with the tops cut off so that very same guy won't get oil sprayed all over his headers and T-shirt. At the same time, dyno shops and engine builders are sending engines out into the world with the valve lash pre-adjusted."
"To adjust lash with hydraulic lifters, simply grab the pushrod and back off the rocker-arm adjusting nut until you feel lash between the pushrod and the rocker arm. Turn the rocker arm adjusting nut while rotating the pushrod until there is no more play between the pushrod and the rocker arm, then tighten the adjusting nut one half turn."
"To adjust lash with hydraulic lifters, simply grab the pushrod and back off the rocker-arm adjusting nut until you feel lash between the pushrod and the rocker arm. Turn the rocker arm adjusting nut while rotating the pushrod until there is no more play between the pushrod and the rocker arm, then tighten the adjusting nut one half turn."
I'm a little worried in this whole thread that there's still not 100% certainty what type of lifter is in use...
Last edited by billla; Jan 9, 2012 at 03:02 PM.
Thread Starter
Racer
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From: Central Valley Cali
Well they definatly acted like hydrolic lifters as i adjusted down one whole side with the motor running. The idle really did not change much at all. There was also no indication that the motor wanted to die or stall at all.
Le Mans Master
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From: Seattle WA
St. Jude Donor '14
I guess if it was me I'd just pull the intake - not that much work and best to be sure as the price of failure here is pretty high; an incorrectly lashed valvetrain - either type - will destroy a cam in relatively short order...
Last edited by billla; Jan 8, 2012 at 10:01 PM.
Thread Starter
Racer
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From: Central Valley Cali
Well you all now have me second guessing the method i just did to check by adjusting the one side and taking up the lash. I know its hard when you are not hear seeing it all first hand. I have also tried to push down on just the push rod and that was a no go.
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I feel pretty confident that he's got hyd from the descriptions. If they were solid and he tightened them down 1 turn past zero...he would definitely have a bad running motor..in fact likely not running at all since valve would be open and no compression.
There is also the assumption that the lifters will all be *pumped up* when it's off...which won't be the case. When you turned it off the plungers were all downward because they were already adjusted. Hopefully the spring raises them..but no guarantee. That's why running is so much better on a motor that's been run awhile.
I can also tell you that if you lay an OEM solid lifter and a Hyd lifter on the bench side by side...you aren't likely to see much difference. Maybe if it's edge orifice type..but even new...they both will rattle a little if there is a piddle valve in the solids and the center plunger will move. You can take both apart to see the differences. It's often pretty tough to get oil to bleed out of a lifter that's been running a while.
I saw a neat valvecover made with a holesaw that had just enough hole to stick a deep socket through to adjust them instead of a big slot. Much less mess. I always used the clips on them...but if you have a lot of oil going upstairs it will still be messy.
JIM
JIM
There is also the assumption that the lifters will all be *pumped up* when it's off...which won't be the case. When you turned it off the plungers were all downward because they were already adjusted. Hopefully the spring raises them..but no guarantee. That's why running is so much better on a motor that's been run awhile.
I can also tell you that if you lay an OEM solid lifter and a Hyd lifter on the bench side by side...you aren't likely to see much difference. Maybe if it's edge orifice type..but even new...they both will rattle a little if there is a piddle valve in the solids and the center plunger will move. You can take both apart to see the differences. It's often pretty tough to get oil to bleed out of a lifter that's been running a while.
I saw a neat valvecover made with a holesaw that had just enough hole to stick a deep socket through to adjust them instead of a big slot. Much less mess. I always used the clips on them...but if you have a lot of oil going upstairs it will still be messy.
JIM
JIM
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Jan 2012
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From: Central Valley Cali
After doing some more research on the 327ci and 250Hp it looks like they where hydraulic cammed motors on most of the vehicles they came equipped on. This would verify what I saw last night as I adjusted the one side of the engine. So my plan of attack is to clean everything, adjust everything with the engine off to get a baseline again and then re adjust it all running and hot; O and buy more oil.
Thanks All.
Thanks All.
Thread Starter
Racer
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From: Central Valley Cali
Update
Ok, so it’s been awhile and I just got around to adjusting the valves this last weekend. After all the going back and forth with solid or hydrolic I adjusted all the valves cold for a hydrolic motor and it fired right up and idled great. I then ran the motor and adjusted them all hot. Everything seams fine and the motor is running great with the exception of a still wanting to idle around 950/1000 rpm but that’s for later.
Thanks for all the help.
Thanks for all the help.