New style axles
The ORIGINAL and bestest
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Ah- If that's what he meant, a CV joint usually cannot accept the type of longitudinal loads that are present in the type of suspension used on C2/C3 where the suspension member is also responsible for transmitting the torque to the wheels.
Even if they could be made to work, what's the advantage?
Even if they could be made to work, what's the advantage?
How would a CV joint have less mass/inertia than a u-joint?
but ... I not would expect someone who refers to axles as "bars" to understand these concepts.
Last edited by wcsinx; Jan 26, 2012 at 08:47 PM.
The ORIGINAL and bestest
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They must have some type of advantage over the old style, otherwise why would they use them in their top performance car, as well as their other performance oriented IRS cars?
Last edited by 7t2vette; Jan 26, 2012 at 08:51 PM.
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What Mike said is correct.
As I mentioned, CV joints are not used to add strength nor save weight. They are disadvantaged in both respects to comparable u-joints.
In fact, for high power and/or off-road applications, it's not uncommon to convert CV joint axles to U-joints.
Le Mans Master
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From: Graceland in a Not Correctly Restored Stingray
Oh, dude meant CV's. 
I had no idea what he was on about.
No, they won't work with the C2/C3 driveline/suspension layout without 1) relieving the axle shafts of their role as upper links by installing some system of additional ones, and 2) adapting/matching available hardware up with flanged inner yokes and the outer stub flanges. It's entirely plausible, and I've done a bit of homework on this one myself as part of a larger concept, but such kit isn't exactly the sort of thing you'll likely ever be able to buy off the shelf.
FWIW, there are CV's in the aftermarket rated to 900 HP and higher, and can be found on the back end of many a modern formula car.
I had no idea what he was on about.No, they won't work with the C2/C3 driveline/suspension layout without 1) relieving the axle shafts of their role as upper links by installing some system of additional ones, and 2) adapting/matching available hardware up with flanged inner yokes and the outer stub flanges. It's entirely plausible, and I've done a bit of homework on this one myself as part of a larger concept, but such kit isn't exactly the sort of thing you'll likely ever be able to buy off the shelf.
FWIW, there are CV's in the aftermarket rated to 900 HP and higher, and can be found on the back end of many a modern formula car.
Last edited by TheSkunkWorks; Jan 26, 2012 at 09:02 PM.
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Non sequitur
What Mike said is correct.
As I mentioned, CV joints are not used to add strength nor save weight. They are disadvantaged in both respects to comparable u-joints.
In fact, for high power and/or off-road applications, it's not uncommon to convert CV joint axles to U-joints.
What Mike said is correct.
As I mentioned, CV joints are not used to add strength nor save weight. They are disadvantaged in both respects to comparable u-joints.
In fact, for high power and/or off-road applications, it's not uncommon to convert CV joint axles to U-joints.
So, if they are so inferior to u-joints, then why are they pretty much universally used by every auto manufacturer in modern cars?
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Still doesn't give a reason why GM, and most others I believe, use them. We are talking about this application in a Corvette, so your off-road example is also non sequitur because I don't think too many vettes go off road intentionally!
So, if they are so inferior to u-joints, then why are they pretty much universally used by every auto manufacturer in modern cars?
So, if they are so inferior to u-joints, then why are they pretty much universally used by every auto manufacturer in modern cars?
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I once heard a very wise man say, "The systems used on F1 cars have about as much in common with street cars as a duck does with a bowling ball."
Burning Brakes
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Still doesn't give a reason why GM, and most others I believe, use them. We are talking about this application in a Corvette, so your off-road example is also non sequitur because I don't think too many vettes go off road intentionally!
So, if they are so inferior to u-joints, then why are they pretty much universally used by every auto manufacturer in modern cars?
So, if they are so inferior to u-joints, then why are they pretty much universally used by every auto manufacturer in modern cars?
Burning Brakes
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From: Melbourne Australia
Precisely. CV joints are predominantly used in FWD cars where large steering angles would generate unacceptable acceleration and deceleration per revolution... no big problem when wheels are pointing straight ahead. Not needed at all in RWD Corvette where angles are minimum.
Joe
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From: Graceland in a Not Correctly Restored Stingray
BTW, C6...
Last edited by TheSkunkWorks; Jan 26, 2012 at 09:31 PM.
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Quite possibly, and wouldn't surprise me! This is an interesting topic, I am going to ask a person I consider very knowledgeable about this, the owner of a race shop that builds serious road race C5 and C6 Corvettes, which is local to me. These guys know their stuff:
Powell Raceshop
Me too!
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Well, for the auto industry to universally accept them in IRS applications, I have to believe that the advantages outweigh the disadvantages. Technology moves forward, not back. Even the most expensive exotic cars with IRS use them, there has got to be good reason for it.
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CV's have less rotating friction compared to the Hooke's joints used in our C3's there may be a 0.25% increase in fuel mileage in replacement, and with gas at $4.00 a gallon it would take a long time to amortize that expenditure.
Love that the guy can't use "spell check" and typical attitude of the youth of America today.... They already knew that
I forgot, one other advantage, if you want to go to a 4wheel steering system, they will work over a wider range of miss-alignment too......May as well go with a trans axel swap too.....
Love that the guy can't use "spell check" and typical attitude of the youth of America today.... They already knew that
I forgot, one other advantage, if you want to go to a 4wheel steering system, they will work over a wider range of miss-alignment too......May as well go with a trans axel swap too.....
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That's a fair observation. I figured out a while ago this would be a very expensive mod to pull off successfully, as it's one thing to dream up cool stuff and quite another to make it happen. Still, if I were able to build a no holds barred C3 it would be on my list.
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That being said, I do know several people that have very high rwhp/tq C5 and C6's (including one C5 that is in the 1200rwhp range) that do not have an issue with breaking cv joints or the halfshafts, and these cars are not babied in any way.....but these cars are street driven and/or road raced only and not drag raced with slicks, which is where breakage is much more likely to happen.
On a chassis dyno, the drivetrain losses on our cars are much, much higher than that of a C5 or C6, and I have to believe that the CV joints play a part in that.
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That being said, I do know several people that have very high rwhp/tq C5 and C6's (including one C5 that is in the 1200rwhp range) that do not have an issue with breaking cv joints or the halfshafts, and these cars are not babied in any way
On a chassis dyno, the drivetrain losses on our cars are much, much higher than that of a C5 or C6, and I have to believe that the CV joints play a part in that.
Drifting
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From: Cameron Park CA
Yep, when straight, or nearly so, there should be no loss of HP. Another point I don't think has been mentioned: how well can a CV joint withstand axial loads. We know the U-joints can as our half-shafts are under constant compression in the normal state. C5/6 half-shafts have one CV joint that is made to allow axial movement - the axle can be compressed and extended as the suspension moves up and down. Knowing that, you couldn't just use a C5/6 half-shaft as-is, you'd have to replace one CV joint (the one that extends and compresses) with a standard CV. As I mentioned in my early posts, the cost of modifying the half-shafts to fit a C3 would be pretty high. Only a determined guy with a shop with all the machine tools at his disposal would try it. It would have to be a labor of love, because the cost wold be beyond any advantage of the CV setup.
Pete