Glyptal
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,948
Likes: 72
From: Oxford MA-----You just lost the game!!!!
I imagine it's a lot like eating chicken soup when you have a cold. It probably won't actually help, but hey, it can't hurt, right? The other thing I have been thinking about is filling the exhaust crossover passage in the intake manifold with an insulative expanding foam.
Scott
Scott
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 19,347
Likes: 654
From: Tampa, Florida
Over on the bicycle forum we had discussion about internal preservation of steel frames and one of the industry recommended products. I decided to do a good old fasioned non-scientific in front of my garage door test.
I took a piece of metal and taped it off into sections. Each section was treated with 'product' and left outdoors to see which best prevented rust. From left to right:
Mobil 1 synthetic motor oil
WD40
Corrosion Block
Boeshield T-9
Liquid Wrench product (dont recall which one)
Loctite product (dont recall which one)
Make of the testing methodology and results what you'd like....
I took a piece of metal and taped it off into sections. Each section was treated with 'product' and left outdoors to see which best prevented rust. From left to right:
Mobil 1 synthetic motor oil
WD40
Corrosion Block
Boeshield T-9
Liquid Wrench product (dont recall which one)
Loctite product (dont recall which one)
Make of the testing methodology and results what you'd like....
Thread Starter
8th Gear
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
From: Baltimore MD
Wow, never expected this much from a question. Thank you all for the information. As far as painting the Heads as well as the rest of the motor at some point, It looks like Eastwood has an engine paint that would last for a while. http://www.eastwood.com/ew-ceramic-e...hev-ornge.html Has anyone used this product? Could I powdercoat the engine? What is better if so?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 7,353
Likes: 72
From: Graceland in a Not Correctly Restored Stingray
I probably wouldn't bother going to the trouble or expense for a mild build, but suggest looking at this if you want to get serious about thermal coatings...
http://www.swaintech.com/store.asp?pid=10296
Otherwise, I'd stick with what's been proven to work inside and out before experimenting here.
http://www.swaintech.com/store.asp?pid=10296
Otherwise, I'd stick with what's been proven to work inside and out before experimenting here.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,557
Likes: 9
From: Oquirrh Mountains
St. Jude Donor '09
Let's look at a cost-benefit analysis of Glyptal:
Potential benefits are perhaps, somewhat better oil return from the lifter valley; although literally millions of engines have survived just fine without it.
Top fuel engine block - no Glyptal.
Cons of glyptal - Extra cost, has to cure right, surface prep has to be correct, etc. If any of it gets loose, it winds up in the bearings and lifters. When the risk of failure is trashing the engine is it really worth it?
Glyptal is one of those myths that goes in the same category of "pumping the pan dry" because you have a h/v oil pump, double-pumpers make you faster, and all 350's at the car show make "about 500 hp".
Potential benefits are perhaps, somewhat better oil return from the lifter valley; although literally millions of engines have survived just fine without it.
Top fuel engine block - no Glyptal.
Cons of glyptal - Extra cost, has to cure right, surface prep has to be correct, etc. If any of it gets loose, it winds up in the bearings and lifters. When the risk of failure is trashing the engine is it really worth it?
Glyptal is one of those myths that goes in the same category of "pumping the pan dry" because you have a h/v oil pump, double-pumpers make you faster, and all 350's at the car show make "about 500 hp".
Racer
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 273
Likes: 11
From: Algona, WA
Myth or Magic?
[QUOTE=Ben Lurkin;1580026281]Let's look at a cost-benefit analysis of Glyptal:
Top fuel engine block - no Glyptal.
...alloy block, rebuilt every 2 miles
Glyptal is one of those myths
So what's the myth? Is it that it will still rust in the valley/head area on a iron block?
Or that it won't help in oil drain back?
Dave
Top fuel engine block - no Glyptal.
...alloy block, rebuilt every 2 miles
Glyptal is one of those myths
So what's the myth? Is it that it will still rust in the valley/head area on a iron block?
Or that it won't help in oil drain back?
Dave
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 81,241
Likes: 3,063
From: altered state
St. Jude Donor '05
What is the fascination with oil draining back so quick?
You got oil in the pan pumping up so youre good.
Its still going to take close to the same amount of time to pool up by the drainback areas in the lifter valley and is pretty much dicatated by how much is being pumped upstairs anyway.
Doesnt matter either way. Have used Glyptal a few times, completely polished a lifter valley and 0 difference on (now) a non treated block.
If you like it go for it but it will make 0 difference to your motors longevity.
If you want to do something then if you think you got some casting slag anywhere inside the block that you reeeealy think could bust off then go after that maybe spend a little time massaging oil drainback holes....in the HEAD, too. Be careful with those though.
You got oil in the pan pumping up so youre good.
Its still going to take close to the same amount of time to pool up by the drainback areas in the lifter valley and is pretty much dicatated by how much is being pumped upstairs anyway.
Doesnt matter either way. Have used Glyptal a few times, completely polished a lifter valley and 0 difference on (now) a non treated block.
If you like it go for it but it will make 0 difference to your motors longevity.
If you want to do something then if you think you got some casting slag anywhere inside the block that you reeeealy think could bust off then go after that maybe spend a little time massaging oil drainback holes....in the HEAD, too. Be careful with those though.
Corvette Stories
The Best of Corvette for Corvette Enthusiasts
150 hp to 1,250 hp: Every Corvette Generation Compared by the Specs That Matter
Joe Kucinski
8 Coolest Corvette Pace Cars (and Replicas) of All Time
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Corvette Engines RANKED by Peak Torque (70+ Years of Muscle!)
Joe Kucinski
Corvette ZR1X Will Be Pacing the Indy 500, And Could Probably Race, Too!
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Corvettes Coming to Mecum Indy 2026!
Brett Foote
Top 10 C9 Corvette MUST-HAVES to Fix These C8 Generation Flaws!
Michael S. Palmer
10 Revolutionary 'Corvette Firsts' Most People Don't Know
Joe Kucinski
5 Reasons to Upgrade to an LS6-Powered Corvette; 5 Reasons to Stay LT2
Michael S. Palmer
2027 Corvette vs The World: Every C8 vs Its Closest Competitor
Joe Kucinski
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,557
Likes: 9
From: Oquirrh Mountains
St. Jude Donor '09
[QUOTE=d555;1580026828]
I realize they are alloy blocks, point being that they are cast, just like iron blocks, and they (generally) survive without glyptal. Oil drainback is just fine without it. I have used it and saw zero benefit. What's the point to something that takes extra time, effort and cost that doesn't do anything for you?
If your lifter valley is rusting so are your cylinder walls. That being the case, you have bigger problems.
Let's look at a cost-benefit analysis of Glyptal:
Top fuel engine block - no Glyptal.
...alloy block, rebuilt every 2 miles
Glyptal is one of those myths
So what's the myth? Is it that it will still rust in the valley/head area on a iron block?
Or that it won't help in oil drain back?
Dave
Top fuel engine block - no Glyptal.
...alloy block, rebuilt every 2 miles
Glyptal is one of those myths
So what's the myth? Is it that it will still rust in the valley/head area on a iron block?
Or that it won't help in oil drain back?
Dave
If your lifter valley is rusting so are your cylinder walls. That being the case, you have bigger problems.
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,781
Likes: 15
From: Oxford Ohio
The more smooth the surface the less surface area. The less surface area and the more insulated the less heat transfers to the oil. The faster the oil gets back into the oil pan the less time the oil has to receive the heat transfer. Therefore I suspect less cooling would take place in the lifter valley area.
Enough to make a difference???? Above my pay grade to know that.
Enough to make a difference???? Above my pay grade to know that.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 6,231
Likes: 65
From: Seattle WA
St. Jude Donor '14
It kinda feels like the "sides" are hardening up on this a bit, and the messaging has become a bit wonky 
I don't think anyone is classing using Glyptal in the cam valley as a "must do" by any means - 99.999999999999999% of engines don't...and I don't think anyone has ever claimed "failure due to non-use of Glyptal" I have never - ever - heard of Glyptal coming off...so I don't see the risk. I understand the concept of "first, do no harm", i.e., not doing something that has a downside when the upside is questionable, but I haven't seen any downside other than time and a couple of bucks.
OTOH and IMHO, anything that promotes oil drainback is a Good Thing. I clean up the drainbacks and get rid of casting flash, etc. when I deburr the block. It takes me about 20 minutes to paint the valley after the block comes back from the shop. I also go around and break sharp edges, chamfer bolt holes, etc. Maybe none of those have any real value as was previously claimed...but as a home builder I'm not on the clock and I can do any little things I think will improve the function of the engine...whether they actually do or not
So do. Or do not. Your call.
I don't think anyone is classing using Glyptal in the cam valley as a "must do" by any means - 99.999999999999999% of engines don't...and I don't think anyone has ever claimed "failure due to non-use of Glyptal"
I have never - ever - heard of Glyptal coming off...so I don't see the risk. I understand the concept of "first, do no harm", i.e., not doing something that has a downside when the upside is questionable, but I haven't seen any downside other than time and a couple of bucks. OTOH and IMHO, anything that promotes oil drainback is a Good Thing. I clean up the drainbacks and get rid of casting flash, etc. when I deburr the block. It takes me about 20 minutes to paint the valley after the block comes back from the shop. I also go around and break sharp edges, chamfer bolt holes, etc. Maybe none of those have any real value as was previously claimed...but as a home builder I'm not on the clock and I can do any little things I think will improve the function of the engine...whether they actually do or not
So do. Or do not. Your call.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 6,231
Likes: 65
From: Seattle WA
St. Jude Donor '14
on both counts.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 20,847
Likes: 959
From: I tend to be leery of any guy who doesn't own a chainsaw or a handgun.
The more smooth the surface the less surface area. Correct. The less surface area and the more insulated the less heat transfers to the oil. Uh, no. The oil temp is generally higher than the coolant temperature when the engine is running hard. The more insulative, the slower the rate that heat will transfer out of the oil into the coolant, and then to the radiator. The faster the oil gets back into the oil pan the less time the oil has to receive the heat transfer. You mean transfer the heat out. Therefore I suspect less cooling would take place in the lifter valley area. Less oil cooling. Enough to make a difference???? Above my pay grade to know that.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,557
Likes: 9
From: Oquirrh Mountains
St. Jude Donor '09
Well, maybe measured isn't the right word in a strictly quantitative sense. There weren't any failures from oiling issues that one could say were due to 'drainback'. I'm not sure how you could even do a meaningful test on that.
Like I said, I've used it, but can't attribute any real benefit to it.
It looks nice I guess.
On to other 'topics'.
Like I said, I've used it, but can't attribute any real benefit to it.
It looks nice I guess.
On to other 'topics'.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,948
Likes: 72
From: Oxford MA-----You just lost the game!!!!
Keep the shiny side up!
Scott
Tech Contributor
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 20,847
Likes: 959
From: I tend to be leery of any guy who doesn't own a chainsaw or a handgun.
The oil draining down from the heads flows down the valley walls, primarily at the front and rear, and a bit through some casting spaces in the middle of the head. The valley walls are temperature controlled by the coolant flow. As the oil drains back on the valley surfaces it transfers heat into the cast iron and then into the coolant.
The oil should be losing some (small) amount of heat on its way down to the lifter valley. That's free cooler oil hitting the lifter area.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 7,353
Likes: 72
From: Graceland in a Not Correctly Restored Stingray
As for reasons quicker oil return might be desired, even with an 8 qt., multi-gated RR pan my shark corners hard enough that I've had recurring issues with loosing prime during long sweepers. So, if Glyptal helps get oil back to the sump a little faster, I'm all for it.
FWIW, before anyone starts throwing other solutions my way, I run a pressure-balanced, bottom-feed, submerged pump, a crank scraper, have an Accusump ready to install and will be adding a modern one-way windage screen before buttoning things back up. Yep, worked the passages and such too. Total system capacity will end up north of 12 quarts, all up.
FWIW, before anyone starts throwing other solutions my way, I run a pressure-balanced, bottom-feed, submerged pump, a crank scraper, have an Accusump ready to install and will be adding a modern one-way windage screen before buttoning things back up. Yep, worked the passages and such too. Total system capacity will end up north of 12 quarts, all up.
