Finally found a 2004R $145
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,714
Likes: 42
From: Austin Texas
Finally found a 2004R $145
I love Craigslist. I have been hunting for a 2004R for a while and basically looking through most of Texas. I finally found one about 15 minutes away. Guy pulled it out of an 87 Monte Carlo SS to put in a 700R4. He included the converter, tv cable, carb bracket and a yoke. I couldn't believe it when I saw it.
Now I gotta figure out how to make it work. I am not sure on the drive shaft length, Ujoint and lock up function but I am sure this forum has the answers.
I have 3.55 rear gears so this should bring my starting ratio down just a bit and give me the overdrive gear.
I'd love to hear from anybody who has a CZF code trans on what to expect from a stock unit.
Now I gotta figure out how to make it work. I am not sure on the drive shaft length, Ujoint and lock up function but I am sure this forum has the answers.
I have 3.55 rear gears so this should bring my starting ratio down just a bit and give me the overdrive gear.
I'd love to hear from anybody who has a CZF code trans on what to expect from a stock unit.
Last edited by johnt365; Apr 30, 2012 at 09:03 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,192
Likes: 27
From: Boca Raton Florida
If thats a healthy tranny you did Great!
If its replacing a TH350C you don't have to worry about the drive shaft length.
Bowtie Overdrives used to have a circuit to show you how to wire up the lockup, you need that too by the way, it will burn the clutches without it.
You will need to get the shifter upgrade kit from Shiftworx to makr the shift handle, detents and overlay inside to work out right.
Good find
If its replacing a TH350C you don't have to worry about the drive shaft length.
Bowtie Overdrives used to have a circuit to show you how to wire up the lockup, you need that too by the way, it will burn the clutches without it.
You will need to get the shifter upgrade kit from Shiftworx to makr the shift handle, detents and overlay inside to work out right.
Good find
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,714
Likes: 42
From: Austin Texas
I will call them. I am replacing a TH400. If I understand it right, the 2004R should kinda bolt right up and use the existing mounting holes in the stock cross member for a TH 400.
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,993
Likes: 9
From: Gig Harbor WA
I replaced my TH400 and, other than changing out to the TH350 tailpiece, it was a BOLT IN swap. Even the cross-member holes lined up perfectly.
I bought the TV cable/instructions from Bowtie, as well as the shifter conversion kit..
It might be worth it to get the TV cable close, then run it by a local trans shop to have them "fine tune" it...
You're gonna LOVE the 200-4R!
I bought the TV cable/instructions from Bowtie, as well as the shifter conversion kit..
It might be worth it to get the TV cable close, then run it by a local trans shop to have them "fine tune" it...
You're gonna LOVE the 200-4R!
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 37,637
Likes: 3,118
From: Crossville TN
Remove the sump pan and inspect for debris..metal chips, chunks, etc. If you only find some fine dark/black gummy stuff in the bottom of the pan, then you have a decent shot at having an undamaged tranny.
I would advise you to buy a new torque converter (with lockup, if you plan to hook it up....good idea, IMO) as the old one is likely getting pretty worn and is full of gunk. They are less than $100 and it is definitely worth changing.
Whether you have it rebuilt (or rebuild it yourself), or run it "as is" will be your choice. Rebuilding it now is the 'safe' approach. The driveshaft will fit up OK, but you will have to figure out how to swap over the shift linkage bracket and cable lockout hardware, while keeping those cables in proper position. You can't just swap over the brackets, as the pan bolt holes are different and that changes the positioning of those cables. Also, you need to connect the TV cable up to the throttle linkage at the carb, AND it needs to be adjusted properly so the clutches get increased apply pressure at WOT...or they burn up quickly, as mentioned above.
The 200-4R is the way to go for you and the '87 Monte Carlo SS unit already has the upgraded internals and later design features in it. Good luck on your swap!
I would advise you to buy a new torque converter (with lockup, if you plan to hook it up....good idea, IMO) as the old one is likely getting pretty worn and is full of gunk. They are less than $100 and it is definitely worth changing.
Whether you have it rebuilt (or rebuild it yourself), or run it "as is" will be your choice. Rebuilding it now is the 'safe' approach. The driveshaft will fit up OK, but you will have to figure out how to swap over the shift linkage bracket and cable lockout hardware, while keeping those cables in proper position. You can't just swap over the brackets, as the pan bolt holes are different and that changes the positioning of those cables. Also, you need to connect the TV cable up to the throttle linkage at the carb, AND it needs to be adjusted properly so the clutches get increased apply pressure at WOT...or they burn up quickly, as mentioned above.
The 200-4R is the way to go for you and the '87 Monte Carlo SS unit already has the upgraded internals and later design features in it. Good luck on your swap!
Burning Brakes
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,116
Likes: 5
From: Middleburg Florida
This will be as close to a bolt in swap as you'll find. If it was running in the donor car, and you're basically stock, I'd probably take the chance and bolt it in. If it has issues, you can pull it back out (it'll only take a couple hours) and build it, but the swap is done and it's just bolt it back in. As for the mythe of the lock up burning clutches...it's a mythe. The lock up function has nothing to do with the clutch plates in the trans. It's a clutch disc in the converter and if it doesn't work, it doesn't hurt anything except you don't get the benefits of the few hundred rpm drop you'll see when it's locked up. There are severaly ways you can wire the thing too. You can use a controller, you can wire it to pressure switches and relays or you can wire to a manual switch. The biggest thing is getting the TV cable adjusted properly. That can cause problems in the trans. Good luck and keep us posted with your progress!
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 871
Likes: 73
From: Memphis Tennessee
Running without the lock up CAN cause problems on transmissions designed to use them. The problem comes from the slippage in the torque converter. The slip generates heat, and heat destroys clutches.
Corvette Stories
The Best of Corvette for Corvette Enthusiasts
Top 10 Most Expensive Corvettes Ever Sold on Bring A Trailer
Brett Foote
10 Things Every Corvette Owner Needs (2026 Edition)
Michael S. Palmer
8 Most "Only Corvette Owners Understand" Quirks and Problems
Pouria Savadkouei
10 Reasons the C6 Z06 is Still A Performance Benchmark After 20 Years
Joe Kucinski
How Much Horsepower Every Corvette Engine "LOST" in 1972
Joe Kucinski
Top 10 DOs and DON'Ts for Protecting Your Convertible Top!
Michael S. Palmer
Top 10 Most Explosive Corvettes Ever Made: Power-to-Weight Ratio Ranked!
Joe Kucinski
150 hp to 1,250 hp: Every Corvette Generation Compared by the Specs That Matter
Joe Kucinski
8 Coolest Corvette Pace Cars (and Replicas) of All Time
Verdad Gallardo
Burning Brakes
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,116
Likes: 5
From: Middleburg Florida
How would not using this add heat or any detrimental impact to the trans? Another internet myth...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eWhkH2kTig
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,989
Likes: 198
From: Meriden CT
I ran a 700r4 in a DD pickup for years without lockup. No adverse effects. It's much more important to have the TV adjusted. You can easily do it yourself with a presure gage. You want to see the pressure start to increase the instant you touch the throttle. The tap for a gage is on the left side of the case.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 65,492
Likes: 230
From: Orange Park Florida
Dave, I just dropped my 200 for non lockup, and bought a kevlar clutch converter like the late 700's so that and the O ring on the shaft, will hopefully give me a lockup finally.....found a couple broken welds on the exhaust pipe crossover H....lovely, on top where not seen....so to Ricky's for rewelding damnit....hope it don't distort badly or it's going to be a mess getting back together....
Instructor
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 183
Likes: 0
ive owned 2 monte carloss with 200r4s 3.73 plus i build trannys my stock 88 shifted firm not harsh ran about 2300rpm at 70 it would chirp 2nd on a cold road at wide open throttle around 5000rpm montess and gn units will go in to overdrive at wot other 200r4s will not tv cable has to be adjusted correctly 200r4s are alot ore sentive than a 700r4 cable adjustment if your running a holley or ekldbrock you will need a cable geometery corrector
if u use the origional converter check the hub for wear side new pump seal over the hub take some atf and pour on the seal to make sure it dosent leak around the hub just a tiny bit will do add a 700 seal retainer on it there used on 87 up 700r4 and 4l60es add a new filter and gasket dont use any sealant on the case side
all monte carloss had 3.73 so your speed o will be off a bit google speedo gears there sites will match u up to gear ratio and tire diameter
clean cooler lines with compressed air and brake clean
as for the lock up if u live in the mid west were theres a lot of flat land use a painless lock up kit so it will lock up in 4th gear normal driving if u do a lot of city driving or in a hilly region (west virginia) leave it un hooked it will work a lot better no side effects n hope thats enough info
if u use the origional converter check the hub for wear side new pump seal over the hub take some atf and pour on the seal to make sure it dosent leak around the hub just a tiny bit will do add a 700 seal retainer on it there used on 87 up 700r4 and 4l60es add a new filter and gasket dont use any sealant on the case side
all monte carloss had 3.73 so your speed o will be off a bit google speedo gears there sites will match u up to gear ratio and tire diameter
clean cooler lines with compressed air and brake clean
as for the lock up if u live in the mid west were theres a lot of flat land use a painless lock up kit so it will lock up in 4th gear normal driving if u do a lot of city driving or in a hilly region (west virginia) leave it un hooked it will work a lot better no side effects n hope thats enough info
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 37,637
Likes: 3,118
From: Crossville TN
Actually, running a lockup transmission on the highway without the lockup being engaged CAN overheat the tranny. These units are designed to have lockup ON when in high range and their temperature management strategy assumes that the lockup will be ON with high speed cruising. If it is not, that is slippage heat that is in excess of the intended design.
For MOST situations, that excess heat will not be an issue. But, in hot weather, with car somewhat loaded, it could start to "cook" the fluid. Besides, it will lower rpm's and save on fuel usage if the lockup clutch is used AS INTENDED.
For MOST situations, that excess heat will not be an issue. But, in hot weather, with car somewhat loaded, it could start to "cook" the fluid. Besides, it will lower rpm's and save on fuel usage if the lockup clutch is used AS INTENDED.
Burning Brakes
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,116
Likes: 5
From: Middleburg Florida
Actually, running a lockup transmission on the highway without the lockup being engaged CAN overheat the tranny. These units are designed to have lockup ON when in high range and their temperature management strategy assumes that the lockup will be ON with high speed cruising. If it is not, that is slippage heat that is in excess of the intended design.
For MOST situations, that excess heat will not be an issue. But, in hot weather, with car somewhat loaded, it could start to "cook" the fluid. Besides, it will lower rpm's and save on fuel usage if the lockup clutch is used AS INTENDED.
For MOST situations, that excess heat will not be an issue. But, in hot weather, with car somewhat loaded, it could start to "cook" the fluid. Besides, it will lower rpm's and save on fuel usage if the lockup clutch is used AS INTENDED.
Racer
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 422
Likes: 28
From: Collinsville IL
I have just finished my 200 r4 swap in my 79 and I love it. It is a fairly easy swap and you can get all the info you need right here on this forum as I did. The 200 is a very under rated tranny. I have mine matched up to a 400 small block with well over 400hp and it handles it well. The TV cable is the most important thing to get right. Not hard, but you can research yourself into confusion on this. Not that I would know anything about that. Good luck and enjoy 4th gear.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,714
Likes: 42
From: Austin Texas
regarding the CTF tag, use http://www.hemmings.com/hmn/stories/...feature26.html and http://web.archive.org/web/200701281.../thm2004r.html to help you find a desirable performance unit. The big difference is the valve body. This piece can be upgraded but it costs $500 itself. http://www.ckperformance.com/200R4_valuebody.html
I called Bowtie Overdrives and asked them about the lock up or no lock up. I realize they are only in it to prevent warranty claims. Their kit locks it up in 4th and disengages with the brake switch. He said that when in overdrive, the transmission is working extra hard in od and can cause extra heat.
I am considering the following from them.
* Lock-up kit. Changes it from the factory operation to 4th gear only.
* EZTV kit. Has adapters for Holley carb and a spring that goes in the valve.
* New speedo gear
* Shifter kit.
* Conversion Ujoint
* Gasket/filter
Part of me wants to just buy the U-joint and install it to see if it shifts ok before I dump $400-$500 bucks on parts for it.
Another challenge to finding one if these units is the differences in nomenclature. 2004R, 200-4R, 200R4 or 200-R4
I called Bowtie Overdrives and asked them about the lock up or no lock up. I realize they are only in it to prevent warranty claims. Their kit locks it up in 4th and disengages with the brake switch. He said that when in overdrive, the transmission is working extra hard in od and can cause extra heat.
I am considering the following from them.
* Lock-up kit. Changes it from the factory operation to 4th gear only.
* EZTV kit. Has adapters for Holley carb and a spring that goes in the valve.
* New speedo gear
* Shifter kit.
* Conversion Ujoint
* Gasket/filter
Part of me wants to just buy the U-joint and install it to see if it shifts ok before I dump $400-$500 bucks on parts for it.
Another challenge to finding one if these units is the differences in nomenclature. 2004R, 200-4R, 200R4 or 200-R4
