Rebuilding valves
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 862
Likes: 9
From: Communist party of MD
Rebuilding valves
So I thought I was at the finish line after painting and assembling the interior on an unfinished '69 project. Car had a frame off resto, with rebuilt drivetrain including the engine (327 from a '68 Camaro).
Had the car towed to the local shop since it was flooding out after 2 miles - come to find out the carb needed to be overhauled. That was done and I get a call from the shop saying that its running - but theres misfiring going on. He ran a compression test on cylinder #7 only and said its got low compression. They think that its valve related when the previous owner put it back together.
-How hard is it to pull the heads off, and redo the valves? I'm good with wrenches, just never done this sort of work before. Most involved engine work I've ever done is take apart the top portion of a '91 Maxima 3.0 in order to replace all the fuel injectors.
Had the car towed to the local shop since it was flooding out after 2 miles - come to find out the carb needed to be overhauled. That was done and I get a call from the shop saying that its running - but theres misfiring going on. He ran a compression test on cylinder #7 only and said its got low compression. They think that its valve related when the previous owner put it back together.
-How hard is it to pull the heads off, and redo the valves? I'm good with wrenches, just never done this sort of work before. Most involved engine work I've ever done is take apart the top portion of a '91 Maxima 3.0 in order to replace all the fuel injectors.
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 81,241
Likes: 3,063
From: altered state
St. Jude Donor '05
Piece of cake
Disonnect battery
Drain coolant
Remove distributor
Alt bracket unbolts from head
Pull intake off (8 bolts clip for linjage,. fuel line etc)
Back off nuts for rockers once valve cover is off
Remove pushods
Remove exh manifolds
Remove head bolts. There is a recommended removal/install sequence maybe someone can post it up
Take you a few hrs maybe an afternoon tops if you take your time
Disonnect battery
Drain coolant
Remove distributor
Alt bracket unbolts from head
Pull intake off (8 bolts clip for linjage,. fuel line etc)
Back off nuts for rockers once valve cover is off
Remove pushods
Remove exh manifolds
Remove head bolts. There is a recommended removal/install sequence maybe someone can post it up
Take you a few hrs maybe an afternoon tops if you take your time
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 6,231
Likes: 65
From: Seattle WA
St. Jude Donor '14
How low-what were the readings?
They "think" its valves? Did they do a leak-down test?
R&Ring the heads is no big deal - but you can't realistically DIY a valve job. Figure on about $450 for a budget job. May be cheaper in the end to do an exchange IF originality is not an issue (NOM).
Definitely spend some time debugging before going this far...
They "think" its valves? Did they do a leak-down test?
R&Ring the heads is no big deal - but you can't realistically DIY a valve job. Figure on about $450 for a budget job. May be cheaper in the end to do an exchange IF originality is not an issue (NOM).
Definitely spend some time debugging before going this far...
Last edited by billla; May 3, 2012 at 01:25 PM.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 862
Likes: 9
From: Communist party of MD
Just got a call back from the shop. They gave me an estimate, depending on what type of valves are in it (can't recall the two types he said over the phone). Prices range from $1,500 to $2,000 since they have to be pulled and sent off to a machine shop. I told them to do a compression test on the remaining 7 cylinders to see whats going on.
And I thought this car was almost done with its restoration
I do have the receipt of the 327 block that was machined by a shop local to the previous owner - that was around $1,300 I believe. What I don't know is what went on with the heads - if they were ever rebuilt/machined, not put together right, etc. Man this is frustrating!
And I thought this car was almost done with its restoration
I do have the receipt of the 327 block that was machined by a shop local to the previous owner - that was around $1,300 I believe. What I don't know is what went on with the heads - if they were ever rebuilt/machined, not put together right, etc. Man this is frustrating!
Tech Contributor
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 14,380
Likes: 6,391
From: At my Bar drinking and wrenching in Lafayette Colorado
A compression test is not the right way to troubleshoot this problem - as billla said, you need to do a leak-down test. The leak-down will identify and quantify the problem and tell you what's really going on.
Lars
Lars
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 862
Likes: 9
From: Communist party of MD
Just got another call back from the shop. After I mentioned that the block was recently rebuilt by the previous owner. I suggested that maybe the previous owner didn't put together something right. They further investigated, pulled a valve cover and noticed that something wasn't adjusted right. The mechanic already left for the day & will know more information in the morning, but I'm going to swing by the shop this afternoon and chat with him.
Just hopefully this is the problem that's smaller than they thought
Just hopefully this is the problem that's smaller than they thought
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Burning Brakes
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 948
Likes: 1
From: pensacola fl
Thats the old telling someone its between $1,500 and $2,000 but then finding its a smaller problem and only charging 600.00. The owner feels relived to spend a lot less money and the shop owner is happy he doesn't have to justify his fees. All kidding aside, I hope it is something smaller than originally expected. Nobody likes to get slammed with unexpected fees like that. Good luck.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 6,231
Likes: 65
From: Seattle WA
St. Jude Donor '14
Don't authorize ANY work, get the car home and debug from there.
$2k is rip-off territory for this work.
Way too many red flags here...
$2k is rip-off territory for this work.
Way too many red flags here...
Last edited by billla; May 3, 2012 at 04:38 PM.
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 37,637
Likes: 3,118
From: Crossville TN
It could be as simple as the PO didn't adjust the valves properly. If your 'repair shop' does that work, it shouldn't cost over $75-100 for new gaskets and labor to set them properly. I think that they figured out you were not going to be a "Easy mark", so they got more realistic with their repair ideas. But, I probably wouldn't want them to do more than a valve lifter adjustment, given their responses, so far. 
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 862
Likes: 9
From: Communist party of MD
Stopped by the shop yesterday afternoon and talked to the service advisor a little. He said that All other 7 cylinders were checking out fine for compression. When the mechanic started doing adjustment on #7, the compression was getting better.
This morning I got a call that everything is back together, compression at cylinder #7 is reading 140 psi. Mechanic took it for a test drive and everything is checking out. I got charged $130 for the diagnosis, compression test & valve adjustment.
Going to pick her up this afternoon
This morning I got a call that everything is back together, compression at cylinder #7 is reading 140 psi. Mechanic took it for a test drive and everything is checking out. I got charged $130 for the diagnosis, compression test & valve adjustment.
Going to pick her up this afternoon
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,233
Likes: 657
From: Thunder Bay
That seems to be a pretty common problem with mechanics these days. Not to sound like a pontificating dinosaur, but at one time mechanics would spend some time figuring out what was wrong before starting repairs. NOwadays they seem to just jump to a conclusion and throw a bunch of parts at the problem with no regard to what its going to cost. Or is it just me?
Race Director
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,674
Likes: 122
From: Millington Illinois
St. Jude Donor '08-'09
That seems to be a pretty common problem with mechanics these days. Not to sound like a pontificating dinosaur, but at one time mechanics would spend some time figuring out what was wrong before starting repairs. Nowadays they seem to just jump to a conclusion and throw a bunch of parts at the problem with no regard to what its going to cost. Or is it just me?
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,112
Likes: 28
From: Florida
There are also bad shops out there that will try to rape you.
Friend of mine that also has his own shop had a tow truck driver buddy of his call to tell him he was about to tow a Land Rover that a repair shop had told the customer had a cracked block and was missing badly ($6000.00 repair estimate) and the owner was wanting to just dump it for $1500.00.
He bought it from the owner and replaced a spark plug wire only.
Rover low wholesale is about 10 grand.
The original shop specializes in engines and engine management systems, I know of them and know that they knew better.
Friend of mine that also has his own shop had a tow truck driver buddy of his call to tell him he was about to tow a Land Rover that a repair shop had told the customer had a cracked block and was missing badly ($6000.00 repair estimate) and the owner was wanting to just dump it for $1500.00.
He bought it from the owner and replaced a spark plug wire only.
Rover low wholesale is about 10 grand.
The original shop specializes in engines and engine management systems, I know of them and know that they knew better.