Am I screwed, alignment?
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 1,462
Likes: 1
From: Reno nevada
Am I screwed, alignment?
My frame is not rusty or cracked. But when I picked up my car with new tires and an alignment the guy told me and showed me that he could only get -0.2 camber on the right front. It has no spacer on the passenger forward A-arm.
The tech said that it appears that the upper arm is pushed in over the years. His advice was find a framing body shop that can pull it back out.
Any ideas of what else to try?
The tech said that it appears that the upper arm is pushed in over the years. His advice was find a framing body shop that can pull it back out.
Any ideas of what else to try?
Terrorizing Orange Cones
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,572
Likes: 17
From: Northern CO
IIRC, these spreader bars help to prevent the upper A-arm towers to stress inward.
Here's just one example (there are various flavors available from several vendors, depending on your needs):
http://www.ecklerscorvette.com/corve...1963-1982.html
Outside of a shop that can straighten frames, this may offer a solution and after installing one, would want to conduct another alignment. Might offer some help to return some of the camber angle more to the positive side.
Here's just one example (there are various flavors available from several vendors, depending on your needs):
http://www.ecklerscorvette.com/corve...1963-1982.html
Outside of a shop that can straighten frames, this may offer a solution and after installing one, would want to conduct another alignment. Might offer some help to return some of the camber angle more to the positive side.
Last edited by Dustup7T2; Jun 18, 2012 at 05:38 PM. Reason: spell checked
Had a 1976 L-82, 4-sp
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 5,338
Likes: 1,213
From: Some days your the dog and some days your the hydrant.
Royal Canadian Navy
Is the movement of the towers a result of metal fatigue or corrosion or both? Trying to decide if I should invest in one. Can you get one that is all bolt on?
Race Director
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 11,361
Likes: 383
From: Plano TX
The front x-member & spring towers have collapsed a bit. No biggie. As mentioned, get a spreader bar to avoid further deterioration.
You don't really want the factory alignment anyway. It was designed by lawyers.
Set the front to -0.7 dgr camber and as much caster as possible.
You don't really want the factory alignment anyway. It was designed by lawyers.
Set the front to -0.7 dgr camber and as much caster as possible.
Team Owner
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 87,381
Likes: 1,593
From: Western NY
Yes a "spreader bar" could help. However, I would buy one directly from the source, 'Vette Brakes and Products. Eckler's simply buys VB&P stuff, re-boxes it, and frequently tacks on another 10-15% to the price....
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 893
Likes: 7
From: Orange Park Florida
I have the same problem on my '72 - my mechanic friend (works on race cars) says the same thing. The front end is slowly tilting inward. He's aligned mine as best he could and it still drives great - no unusual tire wear. I may purchase the spreader bar but I would like to see a picture of one installed.
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 30,995
Likes: 99
From: Ontario
I have the same problem on my '72 - my mechanic friend (works on race cars) says the same thing. The front end is slowly tilting inward. He's aligned mine as best he could and it still drives great - no unusual tire wear. I may purchase the spreader bar but I would like to see a picture of one installed.
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Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 1,462
Likes: 1
From: Reno nevada
Hey thanks guys. This is a Nevada desert car that is parked on stands all winter. No rust here.
I will shop VB&P for a spreader with mechanical fan.
I saw that they have U-weld and welded. I would preferr the welded up already
I will shop VB&P for a spreader with mechanical fan.
I saw that they have U-weld and welded. I would preferr the welded up already
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,944
Likes: 20
From: The only Corvettes in Highett Victoria
What is the factory measurement?
G'day,
I hope I'm not hijacking, but it would be good to know the FACTORY dimension of the gap between the upper A arm mounting flanges. If such a figure was available, then it would be a simple measurement to let you know how far off stock it was.
Then you could insert a spreader bar and adjust it to bring it back to the factory dimension, lock it in and get a new alignment.
Anyone have these dimensions? Jim Shea?
Regards from Down Under.
aussiejohn
I hope I'm not hijacking, but it would be good to know the FACTORY dimension of the gap between the upper A arm mounting flanges. If such a figure was available, then it would be a simple measurement to let you know how far off stock it was.
Then you could insert a spreader bar and adjust it to bring it back to the factory dimension, lock it in and get a new alignment.
Anyone have these dimensions? Jim Shea?
Regards from Down Under.
aussiejohn
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 146
Likes: 2
From: Hillsborough NC
You may actually want to get the spreader bar that you need to weld up. If you still have the factory fan, clearance is a little bit of an issue and the ability to weld it exactly where you want it is helpful.
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 146
Likes: 2
From: Hillsborough NC
distance
I copied this off a post when I decided to go with a spreader bar. Sorry, I don't remember who posted this originally. Hope this is helpful.
The distance between the shock absorber towers should be exactly 26 3/8", measured from where the front A-arm stud
protrudes through the shock absorber tower.
The distance between the shock absorber towers should be exactly 26 3/8", measured from where the front A-arm stud
protrudes through the shock absorber tower.
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,716
Likes: 281
From: New York
Actually I thought this was a known issue. I had the same issue. I wanted more caster and camber and they could not fit enough shim in to get the specs I wanted. I have two suggestions.
Suggestion #1: Take out the studs that hold the upper control arm in. They are a press fit and mine came out without too much trouble. Replace them with longer studs. Wheel studs that are ½ heavy duty for racing work well. Just measure the knurl size.
Suggestion #2 is probably not one you want, unless you run the car in time trial or race. They sell steel bushings. The upper bushing is drilled eccentrically so major adjustments can be made by turning the bushings and fine adjustments with a minimum of shims. This worked well for me.
http://www.guldstrand.com/scripts/pr...p?idproduct=94
Suggestion #1: Take out the studs that hold the upper control arm in. They are a press fit and mine came out without too much trouble. Replace them with longer studs. Wheel studs that are ½ heavy duty for racing work well. Just measure the knurl size.
Suggestion #2 is probably not one you want, unless you run the car in time trial or race. They sell steel bushings. The upper bushing is drilled eccentrically so major adjustments can be made by turning the bushings and fine adjustments with a minimum of shims. This worked well for me.
http://www.guldstrand.com/scripts/pr...p?idproduct=94
Race Director
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 11,361
Likes: 383
From: Plano TX
Actually I thought this was a known issue. I had the same issue. I wanted more caster and camber and they could not fit enough shim in to get the specs I wanted. I have two suggestions.
Suggestion #1: Take out the studs that hold the upper control arm in. They are a press fit and mine came out without too much trouble. Replace them with longer studs.
Suggestion #1: Take out the studs that hold the upper control arm in. They are a press fit and mine came out without too much trouble. Replace them with longer studs.
Like I said in my previous post the factory alignment stinks, but some still want it anyway.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 7,353
Likes: 72
From: Graceland in a Not Correctly Restored Stingray
Good discussion already. FWIW, installing a spreader bar is one of the best things any C3 owner can do, frame issues or not. Many a later car came with them. As mentioned, factory alignment specs aren't necessarily what you need anyway. I'd install the spreader and get a precision (minimal/no tolerance, & symmetrical) alignment using specs such as those recommended by VBP. Not sure I'd try to press the towers all the way back to spec with the spreader (some pre-load is desirable), but you will notice that it reduces front end chassis flex. And, unless you've some serious frame issues I certainly wouldn't sweat a little neg front camber, as you may well find it to your liking anyway.
TSW
TSW
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,716
Likes: 281
From: New York
“he could only get -0.2 camber on the right front".
My interpretation of that was he wanted more negative camber like ½ to 1 degree negative. You would not want positive camber, but you would want positive castor. I was unaware the factory called for positive camber.
I was not sure what this meant:
“It has no spacer on the passenger forward A-arm.”
If there were no shims (spacer?), adding shims would have made more negative camber.
Either way, the spreader bar is a great idea.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 1,462
Likes: 1
From: Reno nevada
So just now I go out in the garage and if you add shims it moves the upper arm in causing additional neg camber. So the dumb Sh#t was trying to give me positive camber. I ordered a spreader bar today and if I spread the frame it would cause additional positive camber.
am I thinking correctly before I go back and raise some hell?
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,483
Likes: 459
From: Lititz PA
Yes, you are thinking correctly. The spreader bar will push the frame outwards which will give you more positive camber. You will correct this by adding shims on the upper control arm which will bring the arm back in towards the car centerline.
John
John
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 1,462
Likes: 1
From: Reno nevada
I got the print out Les Schwab gave me. The before was:
LF camber -.7 RF camber -.6 I ask to change to -.5
castor 3.84 3.74 I ask for as much as possible
toe in .25 degrees .29 degrees which is like in less than 1/16th
The specific range on the printout is 0-1.5 pos.
So he set it down as low as he could at -.2 and wanted me to bend the frame out to get that positive value
Then the after castor is 2.5 on both sides
I'm going back tomorrow.
LF camber -.7 RF camber -.6 I ask to change to -.5
castor 3.84 3.74 I ask for as much as possible
toe in .25 degrees .29 degrees which is like in less than 1/16th
The specific range on the printout is 0-1.5 pos.
So he set it down as low as he could at -.2 and wanted me to bend the frame out to get that positive value
Then the after castor is 2.5 on both sides
I'm going back tomorrow.
Last edited by Lt1er; Jun 20, 2012 at 12:22 AM.