Steering info.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 197
Likes: 4
From: Rochester New York
Steering info.
This is my first Corvette, in fact, it's my first 'performance' car ever. I have done a ton of work on it and have turned it into a very dependable daily driver. She runs 6 to 8 hours a week these days.
My question: Is the steering set up to 'dive' into corners and be abrupt... almost exagerated? Does this chassis tend to have 'less' caster, thus less natural correction... Or do I just have a toasted steering box... It looks like someone has messed with the adjustment plenty of times, likely over-adjusted it. I set it back to factory spec. but frankly, I have never run across a steering box that was 'run wrong', sure, I have only seen plenty of tired ones from this vintage but not one doing this. Anyone know what happens if they were run tight? I don't want to try and fix something that is not broken.
FYI: As a 50+ year old life long mechanic... I cut my teeth on this vintage car, but don't recall ever getting a chance to drive a C3. I have no base line to judge by, and C3's and C3 guys to talk to where I am are very far and few between.
My question: Is the steering set up to 'dive' into corners and be abrupt... almost exagerated? Does this chassis tend to have 'less' caster, thus less natural correction... Or do I just have a toasted steering box... It looks like someone has messed with the adjustment plenty of times, likely over-adjusted it. I set it back to factory spec. but frankly, I have never run across a steering box that was 'run wrong', sure, I have only seen plenty of tired ones from this vintage but not one doing this. Anyone know what happens if they were run tight? I don't want to try and fix something that is not broken.
FYI: As a 50+ year old life long mechanic... I cut my teeth on this vintage car, but don't recall ever getting a chance to drive a C3. I have no base line to judge by, and C3's and C3 guys to talk to where I am are very far and few between.
Last edited by ThePabst; Jul 6, 2012 at 12:43 PM.
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,372
Likes: 4
From: Springfield VA
The steering system on C3's is unique. If its in good shape it works fine, but with age all good things need repair or help.
Have you checked out the ball joints, tie rods, steering arm, control arm bushings, shocks, etc... To make sure nothing is really worn out badly? Could be it just needs a overhaul.
If they are all good then you have a couple options if you want to improve on the old design.
1 is a Borgeson (sp?) box. It replaces the box and some other parts in the C3 while maintaining the tie rod setup.
The 2nd is what my car has, a Rack and pinion system. Very sharp and quick turning also ends the bump steer issue older cars have.
The borgeson box is cheaper than a rack and leaves most of the rest of the system looking like the factory setup. The rack rips all that out and brings the car up to current tech. Just depends on what type of driving you are going to do and what you are really after.
Have you checked out the ball joints, tie rods, steering arm, control arm bushings, shocks, etc... To make sure nothing is really worn out badly? Could be it just needs a overhaul.
If they are all good then you have a couple options if you want to improve on the old design.
1 is a Borgeson (sp?) box. It replaces the box and some other parts in the C3 while maintaining the tie rod setup.
The 2nd is what my car has, a Rack and pinion system. Very sharp and quick turning also ends the bump steer issue older cars have.
The borgeson box is cheaper than a rack and leaves most of the rest of the system looking like the factory setup. The rack rips all that out and brings the car up to current tech. Just depends on what type of driving you are going to do and what you are really after.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 197
Likes: 4
From: Rochester New York
I have window shopped the available R and P set ups; definatly in my future. But for now, everything is tight. I sifted through the usual suspects, tie rods, ball joints etc. nothing seems to be worn or dammaged. She SURE could use a complete bushing swap but nothing is really whipped. So your telling me that my C3 should steer like a 'Normal' car?
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,372
Likes: 4
From: Springfield VA
Sounds like you have over steer in your car does that sound right?
Is the front sway bar still there and ok? Does the rear have a sway bar (not supposed to from the factory if I remember correct)?
Mine is the same way as the old owner had the aligmnet done to factory specs so it pulls hard into corners. I am going to replace my upper control arms with some upgraded ones to get some more negative camber plus install a larger fron sway bar.
Is the front sway bar still there and ok? Does the rear have a sway bar (not supposed to from the factory if I remember correct)?
Mine is the same way as the old owner had the aligmnet done to factory specs so it pulls hard into corners. I am going to replace my upper control arms with some upgraded ones to get some more negative camber plus install a larger fron sway bar.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 197
Likes: 4
From: Rochester New York
Thanks for the input!!! 
Yes, she is bone stock, nothing missing, no mods or add ons to the susp. It does not seem like classic oversteer. She does not plow or slide (Understeer: reminds me of the old mans Gran Torino Wagon LOL, had to make an appointment to turn that pig, we should all be dead). But she LOVES to go in head first, no doubt.
Sounds like it's working correctly as it exibits the same agresive turn in at corners that you elude to. My other cars (don't ask, the forum will pull my man card) they correct well under power, the Vette needs driver input coming out of a drift or hard cornering. Hence I suspect less than normal caster... Does that seem right? What is the buzz on some sort of Jeep steering box swap out??
Yes, she is bone stock, nothing missing, no mods or add ons to the susp. It does not seem like classic oversteer. She does not plow or slide (Understeer: reminds me of the old mans Gran Torino Wagon LOL, had to make an appointment to turn that pig, we should all be dead). But she LOVES to go in head first, no doubt.
Sounds like it's working correctly as it exibits the same agresive turn in at corners that you elude to. My other cars (don't ask, the forum will pull my man card) they correct well under power, the Vette needs driver input coming out of a drift or hard cornering. Hence I suspect less than normal caster... Does that seem right? What is the buzz on some sort of Jeep steering box swap out??
Last edited by ThePabst; Jul 6, 2012 at 02:18 PM.
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,372
Likes: 4
From: Springfield VA
Yea the Jeeo box, Borgeson, is what I was talking about before. Its a little cheaper and supposed to help in the steering system.
Do a search as I have never seen one or driven with one. My only exp. is the factory setup and my Rack.
Do a search as I have never seen one or driven with one. My only exp. is the factory setup and my Rack.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,019
Likes: 18
From: St. Louis MO
I put a Jeep box in my 1980. Used the Malibu pitman arm. Had to have a bushing made so the pitman arm fit on the box. Got a high pressure line made for the fluid. Got about 100 bucks wrapped up in the deal. Drives great. Had it aligned and they were impressed with the modification. I of cours lied and told them it was my idea!!
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Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,314
Likes: 111
From: St Louis MO
Also note that as differential side yokes wear (there's a lot of stuff written about this), the wheels move inwards by the amount of the wear but the pivot point of the trailing arms remain fixed. This has the effect of decreasing toe-in towards neutral, or even toe-out, which will degrade handling the worse the wear becomes.
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 37,637
Likes: 3,112
From: Crossville TN
If the steering components are all in decent condition and there is no binding in the system, the stock steering box will do you just fine. But, the steering links, joints, ball joints, A-arm bushings, etc., etc. must be in decent condition for ANY steering box you install.
Many folks just tell you to change the box to something else...Borgeson, Jeep, whatever....but that will do you no good if the other components aren't in good condition. From your description of the car's behavior during turns, it sounds [to me] like there are problems with the other steering components. It could be that your alignment is just way out of spec; but I doubt that this is not the only thing at fault.
Lift the front end off the ground and check-out the fuction/freedom/integrity of all the steering components. Fix the problems you find there (don't forget the ragjoint) before you decide the steering box is your problem.
Many folks just tell you to change the box to something else...Borgeson, Jeep, whatever....but that will do you no good if the other components aren't in good condition. From your description of the car's behavior during turns, it sounds [to me] like there are problems with the other steering components. It could be that your alignment is just way out of spec; but I doubt that this is not the only thing at fault.
Lift the front end off the ground and check-out the fuction/freedom/integrity of all the steering components. Fix the problems you find there (don't forget the ragjoint) before you decide the steering box is your problem.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,039
Likes: 62
From: Kona Hawaii
My Vette steered really bad until I swapped in the Borgeson box.Looked at all the other systems out there and the Borgeson swap was the easiest to install as far as I could tell from my research.It bolts up in the stock location with no brackets,eliminates the control valve steering cylinder and hoses that are under the car.Your stock pitman arm mates up perfectly.Steering is quick and solid.Good luck.....
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