In the mornings, the car fires right up - every time, no problem.

However, after I drive it around for a while, then stop in at a store, most of the time it fails to start.

No clicking. No turning over. Nothing! Totally dead, though the radio, electrics, etc all work fine.

This has been a problem for some time, so I installed a switch wired directly to the starter, and it always fires up just fine after one of the above episodes. So from that, I know for sure the problem is not the battery, starter, or solenoid.

I thought for the longest time it was the neutral safety cutoff, and since I planned on converting from an Auto to a Manual, I thought when I put the new tranny in, the problem would be solved.

Sadly, that above conversion is complete and I still see the problem.

I have a wiring diagram, but I am at a loss as to how to proceed - any thoughts? suggestions? tips? Etc?

Any and all information on how to diagnose, next steps, or ideas on what it could be would be greatly appreciated.

-Matt
mattowenatwork@yahoo.com
1981, 350 crate motor, formerly 3 speed auto - now 5 speed TKO500 manual trans. :-)

 

ignition control module?

 

Is it summer yet? See this thread
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c3-t...k-starter.html
It will not be the ignition module because you say it wont turn over (starter). It could be your solenoid is weaker when hot but it is exacerbated by old wiring and bad connections. Your by-pass is sending full voltage and getting it started. I doubt neutral safety because it would be a problem when cold. Everything you are by-passing is suspect. Power to ignition switch, switch, wiring to the starter, and even the solenoid itself. It might be easier to take your trigger wire (purple) off of your solenoid and use it to switch a "Ford" type starter solenoid (fender well mount) and run a larger wire from the "ford" to your starter mounted solenoid.
Here is what I am talking about
http://www.madelectrical.com/catalog/st-1.shtml
But you could go to the parts store and buy the same parts for about $15.00

 

I had the same problem.

Here is the ford kit i used. http://www.madelectrical.com/catalog/st-1.shtml

I also cleaned my battery ground to frame and put a heat shield on the starter.

 

good eye, I missed the 'no turning,

 

OK... so I believe I have the heat sink issue.

A few questions...

1) Did these cars have this problem right out of the showroom? (Hard to believe that this would have been acceptable)

2) If they didn't have the problem originally, at what age/mileage did it first start showing up?

3) Given that I already have a painless hot start that just bypasses the whole ignition system, is it worth getting the start 'em up remote starter solenoid, and if so, why? what are the advantages?

Thanks in advance for any info

 

probly would've been good to say you had the painless hot start in your original thread, your problem could be something entirely different. good luck

 

I put the painless in to solve the "car won't start after it has been running for a while and won't start after i shut it off problem"

 

you may get better info now...hopefully.

 

I had the same problem. In the process I replaced the starter and ignition switch, neither of which were the cause (at least I won't have to replace those parts again for some time). The headlights and buzzers and gauges and whatnot worked ok for the most part but sometimes they seemed like they weren't getting enough juice (or any) though as this problem started the only thing not getting any power (or at least enough) was the starter. Turns out it was a loose ground cable. Check that if you haven't already. It's a short cable that goes from the battery box, down to a cross member right underneath it, not more than 2' long total. A bad ground may make everything else seem ok, but the starter didn't even click for me. I know it sounds like a no-brainer, but it's one of those "gotcha's" that I fell for.

 

finally a smart Vette owner,,,,, but if he would have cleaned that ground before all those wasted parts purchasers could have saved some money to go out and enjoy his Vette with.....Rum, Scotch, or whatever....even a 6 pack......

 

[QUOTE=mattowen;1581494758]OK... so I believe I have the heat sink issue.

A few questions...

1) Did these cars have this problem right out of the showroom? (Hard to believe that this would have been acceptable)

2) If they didn't have the problem originally, at what age/mileage did it first start showing up?

3) Given that I already have a painless hot start that just bypasses the whole ignition system, is it worth getting the start 'em up remote starter solenoid, and if so, why? what are the advantages?

1. Yes, Its been a common problem for years, especially in hot climates with "heavy use" vehicles - towing, ect. I remember Chevy dealers using kits like this 35 years ago.
2. It depends on the use and stress on the vehicle
3. You put less stress on your electrical components if you feed them proper voltage - 12

You might solve the problem by checking voltage (hot not starting) going to the starter. If it is low, the whole circuit is suspect. It could be grounds, switches, connections, wiring ect. If the voltage is good, replacing starter & solenoid and placing a good heat shield on them may do it. The reason several of us recommend this modification is because it is the easiest and best value repair for this problem.

 

Not wasted purchases, preemptive maintenance.

 

So if I wanted to diagnose this from the starter backwards, to determine what specific component/wire is the cause of the problem - any suggestions for a step by step procedure?

Since the hot start is turning the car over regardless of whether I experience the problem or not when using the ignition key, is it not safe to assume that the problem is with one of the wires somewhere between the battery, ignition, and starter? Can I not rule out the starter, solenoid, and battery from the start?

First thing I'll check is the battery ground.

Then what are the next steps?

Thanks for any assistance.

 

I had a suzuki gsxr that had a starter that only worked when it was cold, when it heated up, wouldn't work. replaced the starter, worked fine all the time. like Codesmith said, "preemptive maintenance"

 

Start with a fully charged battery and all wire connections clean.
Use the actual post of the battery, not the cable clamp to test.
Connect a digital volt meter to the batt post and other lead to successive connections. Have someone crank the ignition and note the voltage drop.
Do that for all the wires/connections.
Any more than 0.5v in any circuit is a problem.

If no problem, look at the starter/solenoid.

 

My pick is the ground cable....even if the connections seem clean and tight the cable can corrode inside it's sheath....check it carefully or just replace it...not a hard job.

 

Excellent point there. Batteries seem to fade over time and you need to be able to load test it. When I replaced my battery I put in a 1000 cranking amp unit. If there is some resistance due to the age of wires or accessories or heat for that matter, the extra amperage should help spin the starter.

 

OK... so I looked under the car and the ground cable "seems" ok.

Lots of gunk caked on it though.... what's the best way to clean in?

Just unscrew it and take a wire brush to the washer, bolt, and contact area of the frame?

 

dang, what have you been doing for almost a month, just never turn it off till you get back home or know its gonna sit and cool long enough?
anyway, wire brush probably won't be quite enough, if you have an air powered die grinder or an air powered angle grinder, use that on frame and both sides of eye bolt and maybe clean up the bolt where it touches eye bolt, if no power tools, sanpaper, get it good and shiny. since the problem is pretty much exclusively heat related, I'm putting my money on the starter needing to be replaced.