aligment nightmare
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 165
Likes: 0
From: concord ohio
aligment nightmare
brought my '78 in to a Goodyear shop for a 4 wheel alignment. here are the before and afters and what they said:
before
left front
camber .2 degrees
caster 2.0 degrees
toe -.54 degrees
right front
camber -.3 degrees
caster 1.6 degrees
toe.08 degrees
steer ahead .23 degrees
total toe .62 degrees
left rear
camber -.6 degrees
toe .04 degrees
right rear
camber .1 degree
to .17 degrees
rear thrust angle -.07 degrees
total toe .22 degrees
after alignment
left front
camber .2 degrees
caster 2.0 degrees
toe .27 degrees
right front
camber -.03 degrees
caster 1.6 degrees
toe .23 degrees
steer ahead .02 degrees
total toe .5 degrees
left rear
camber -1 degree
toe .07 degress
right rear
camber -.9 degrees
toe .21 degrees
thrust angle -.07 degrees
total toe .28 degrees
The shop was unable to fix the right rear toe due to the trailing arm being fully shimmed on the inboard side. They also said that a previous shop heated and bent the right rear strut slightly. Does any of this make sense and does anyone know of a GOOD shop in the Cleveland Ohio area? I was also trying to increase my front caster to +3-4 degrees based on a recommendation from Borgeson on the new steering box. Goodyear said that my front tires would be moved too far forward and would rub the fender. Doesn't sound right!
before
left front
camber .2 degrees
caster 2.0 degrees
toe -.54 degrees
right front
camber -.3 degrees
caster 1.6 degrees
toe.08 degrees
steer ahead .23 degrees
total toe .62 degrees
left rear
camber -.6 degrees
toe .04 degrees
right rear
camber .1 degree
to .17 degrees
rear thrust angle -.07 degrees
total toe .22 degrees
after alignment
left front
camber .2 degrees
caster 2.0 degrees
toe .27 degrees
right front
camber -.03 degrees
caster 1.6 degrees
toe .23 degrees
steer ahead .02 degrees
total toe .5 degrees
left rear
camber -1 degree
toe .07 degress
right rear
camber -.9 degrees
toe .21 degrees
thrust angle -.07 degrees
total toe .28 degrees
The shop was unable to fix the right rear toe due to the trailing arm being fully shimmed on the inboard side. They also said that a previous shop heated and bent the right rear strut slightly. Does any of this make sense and does anyone know of a GOOD shop in the Cleveland Ohio area? I was also trying to increase my front caster to +3-4 degrees based on a recommendation from Borgeson on the new steering box. Goodyear said that my front tires would be moved too far forward and would rub the fender. Doesn't sound right!
Racer
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 434
Likes: 3
From: Cleveland Ohio
You will be limited on the front caster on a stock suspension. 2 to 2.5 is a good number. Looks like the Goodyear shop did a "toe and go" on the front and not sure why they changed the left rear camber. This is why I started doing my own alignments 10 years ago.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,428
Likes: 5
From: Japan
The Goodyear shop told you that because they didn't want to go to the trouble and/or expense of resetting the caster, which means unscrewing stuff and moving/ adding/ subtracting shims two or three times. Unless your front tires are already nearly rubbing (highly unlikely) adding 3 or 4 degrees isn't going to make them rub, unless they're 305-75/17's or something like that...
As for the bent strut in the back, it's common to see that and new ones are relatively cheap. Your camber settings sound about right in the back anyway, so it wouldn't really hurt to leave them as is. As for the toe, if you really are shimmed all the way in on that side, that's a problem...BTW where is the eccentric adjuster on that side presently positioned? If it's at 'zero' or inboard of zero you can likely adjust in some toe, but you'll also gain some camber as a result. You may want to look at adjustable strut rods in the back...
As for the bent strut in the back, it's common to see that and new ones are relatively cheap. Your camber settings sound about right in the back anyway, so it wouldn't really hurt to leave them as is. As for the toe, if you really are shimmed all the way in on that side, that's a problem...BTW where is the eccentric adjuster on that side presently positioned? If it's at 'zero' or inboard of zero you can likely adjust in some toe, but you'll also gain some camber as a result. You may want to look at adjustable strut rods in the back...
Race Director
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 11,361
Likes: 383
From: Plano TX
The probable reason for both the bent strut rod as well the toe issue is that your diff yokes are worn out. The C3 uses the half shaft as the upper link in the suspension. When the diff yokes are shot, the half shafts go in closer to the center of the car (become "too short"). This gives you toe-out and negative camber. The eccentric on strut rod runs out of adjustment so crap shops bend the strut rod to make it shorter. Fixes the camber, but toe is still wrong.
Proper fix is to rebuild the diff and replace the strut rods.
Proper fix is to rebuild the diff and replace the strut rods.
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,839
Likes: 45
From: nassau co. new york
i have just completed my hopefully last alignment,and i have replaced all the suspension items that wear. before i would ever think about paying for a 4 wheel alignment i would make sure there is no play anywhere in the steering or suspension.else you are wasting your money.good luck.
Drifting
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,353
Likes: 44
From: Calgary Alberta
I had problems getting my 1976 lined up this past summer. The first shop I went to gave me back my car with a crooked steering wheel, so I had them do it again, etc. until finally they threw in the towel and gave me my money back.
Second place I went to lined it up really well and surmised that the first place was too intimidated by the process of shimming etc. in the rear end to even bother trying to line it up properly. Maybe these guys you went to just didn't want to dive into your Corvette's rear end? It's not like a 2007 Honda Civic back there.
Maybe try another shop?
Second place I went to lined it up really well and surmised that the first place was too intimidated by the process of shimming etc. in the rear end to even bother trying to line it up properly. Maybe these guys you went to just didn't want to dive into your Corvette's rear end? It's not like a 2007 Honda Civic back there.
Maybe try another shop?
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,443
Likes: 65
From: Wauconda IL
There's you problem right there. 
The kids doing alignments at Goodyear weren't even born when C3s new and probably never worked on one before you came in.
You need to find a shop that specializes (or at least works on them on a regular basis) in C3's or you'll always be disappointed.
Leave the Goodyears/Firestones/Pep Boys etc for your typical grocery getter..
Just my 2 cents-
Elm
The kids doing alignments at Goodyear weren't even born when C3s new and probably never worked on one before you came in.
You need to find a shop that specializes (or at least works on them on a regular basis) in C3's or you'll always be disappointed.
Leave the Goodyears/Firestones/Pep Boys etc for your typical grocery getter..
Just my 2 cents-
Elm
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Drifting
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,714
Likes: 42
From: Austin Texas
I know exactly how you feel. One issue is that most chains are probably not going to do a custom alignment on your Vette, they are only going to bring it into original specs. VB&P has a print out of custom alignment specs on their website you can take to a shop.
You are probably going to need call around to some independent shops and see if any of them are classic car lovers and have worked on a Vette before.
Now, back to that rear end of yours. I took mine to a shop recently and he sent me away with homework... He said replace your struts and loosen the trailing arm bolts...
Dear god I wish he had said go learn Chinese instead. You already know you need a strut so take this time to get under there and check out the strut bushings and, dare I say, trailing arm bushings. All I wanted was an alignment but it has turned into a winter project getting the rear end in order so it can be aligned and hold it properly.
(Willcox has great forum specials on struts PLUS 10% off. Just sayin)
You are probably going to need call around to some independent shops and see if any of them are classic car lovers and have worked on a Vette before.
Now, back to that rear end of yours. I took mine to a shop recently and he sent me away with homework... He said replace your struts and loosen the trailing arm bolts...
Dear god I wish he had said go learn Chinese instead. You already know you need a strut so take this time to get under there and check out the strut bushings and, dare I say, trailing arm bushings. All I wanted was an alignment but it has turned into a winter project getting the rear end in order so it can be aligned and hold it properly. (Willcox has great forum specials on struts PLUS 10% off. Just sayin)
Advanced
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
I had Tires Plus do an alignment after rebuilding my rear end. Believe it or not, they did a very good job. A year later I brought my car to a Corvette specialty shop for an alignment after buying new tires and they verified the rear alignment. I'm guessing that all new rear components made a big difference and maybe luck of the draw on the mechanic. I can also say it wasn't a fluke, a buddy of mine had his C3 aligned at a different Tires Plus and had nothing but good feedback. But again, his trailing arms and strut rods were also new.
Advanced
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
[QUOTE=birdsmith;1581929031]The Goodyear shop told you that because they didn't want to go to the trouble and/or expense of resetting the caster, which means unscrewing stuff and moving/ adding/ subtracting shims two or three times. Unless your front tires are already nearly rubbing (highly unlikely) adding 3 or 4 degrees isn't going to make them rub, unless they're 305-75/17's or something like that...
He said the shop told him the inboard side was fully shimmed. The shop didn't want to go to the trouble of moving, adding, subtracting shims, makes sense to me. If the inboard side is already fully shimmed, what's the point?
He said the shop told him the inboard side was fully shimmed. The shop didn't want to go to the trouble of moving, adding, subtracting shims, makes sense to me. If the inboard side is already fully shimmed, what's the point?
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,717
Likes: 551
From: Seattle Washington
My local Goodyear store has a reputation for being as bad as it gets. I had a freind who worked there 30 years ago back in High School and a request was to find 3 things wrong with every car that came threw. A year ago I was on my way to my favorite Tire store to have a Wheel balanced and wile waiting at the traffic light I said what the heck lets let the Goodyear store do it. They took a glance at my Wheel and said that the Tire(Goodyear) wasn't safe to drive on, ( with a Date Code only a year and a half old) My Rim looked Bent and...I didn't wait for them to find the 3rd thing I just walked out.
I'm a big fan of going to a Local Shop that dose a lot of Sports cars, and or Auto Cross and Track Day Cars. Looking to find a good deal on a $89 Alignment special from a major chain is probably money thrown away. A corvette specialty shop is best, but not nessisary. Plan on taking in new the alignment Shims for the Trailing Arms, You can't plan on them having them for a 30 year old car. Since You will probably be paying buy the Hour, try to have all the Suspension parts broke loose so they don't have to waste a lot of time and money doing it.
I'm a big fan of going to a Local Shop that dose a lot of Sports cars, and or Auto Cross and Track Day Cars. Looking to find a good deal on a $89 Alignment special from a major chain is probably money thrown away. A corvette specialty shop is best, but not nessisary. Plan on taking in new the alignment Shims for the Trailing Arms, You can't plan on them having them for a 30 year old car. Since You will probably be paying buy the Hour, try to have all the Suspension parts broke loose so they don't have to waste a lot of time and money doing it.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 9,272
Likes: 17
I didnt read all the posts, but they have your front caster , reversed, and if they messed that up you need to find a good shop. lots of folks dont like them , but firestone does a pretty good 4 wheel alignment for low price
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 9,272
Likes: 17
if you did the rebuild yourself, setting up the alignment yourself is a fairly easy and no special tools required way to insure you get the alignment you want. There are several threads on this forum and several u-tube video's with plenty of help