corvette brakes
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 13,015
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From: Corsicana, Tx
2020 C2 of the Year - Modified Winner
2020 Corvette of the Year (performance mods)
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As mentioned..the Vette system works fine. You've got a lot of small pistons where moisture can get to if the system is in poor shape and then you'll get a leaking seal..which allows in air..which brings more moisture etc. I installed a $300 kit from Vette brakes back in the mid 90's that included calipers, pads, master cylinder,rear steel lines and rear rubber lines and Dot 5 fluid.It worked flawlessly for years with no issues.
If it sits around and loses pedal..you've got a leak. Fix it and you won't have any more issues..unless it's been doing it for a long time and the system is full of moisture/rust already.
I've resurrected a LOT of old cars over the years of many makes and models..and they all needed brake work at one point or another if they had sat a long time.
JIM
If it sits around and loses pedal..you've got a leak. Fix it and you won't have any more issues..unless it's been doing it for a long time and the system is full of moisture/rust already.
I've resurrected a LOT of old cars over the years of many makes and models..and they all needed brake work at one point or another if they had sat a long time.
JIM
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,090
Likes: 74
From: New Carlisle IN
I agree that when the stock system is maintained properly, it is very good. My dad put stainless lined lip seal calipers on my 73 when we built it. That was in 94 and we have had no issues with them at all.
I bought my 76 and a few months later, I had a leaky caliper seal. I replaced all of them with stainless lip seal calipers from Muskegon Brakes. I've had no issues with them at all.
I have a firm pedal in both cars and can routinly lock up tires when autcrossing. If you keep the calipers bleed starting from the longest distance from the master cylinder, you can get all the air out. Keep fresh fluid in the car that doesn't have moisture in it and the calipers won't leak. There is a good article on the Duntov Motor Company website about the advantages of the lip seal vs. the o-ring seal. It's in their tech tips section.
I do not use Dot5 because of the racing I do. The Dot5 is silicone and will boil too easily. I use Valvoline Synpower DOT3-4 and it has never boiled. The Dot5 will also displace any moisture in your lines and it will collect in the lowest portion of your system where it will cause rust. Dot3-4 actually absorbs the moiture and can be drained from the system with regular bleeding.
I bought my 76 and a few months later, I had a leaky caliper seal. I replaced all of them with stainless lip seal calipers from Muskegon Brakes. I've had no issues with them at all.
I have a firm pedal in both cars and can routinly lock up tires when autcrossing. If you keep the calipers bleed starting from the longest distance from the master cylinder, you can get all the air out. Keep fresh fluid in the car that doesn't have moisture in it and the calipers won't leak. There is a good article on the Duntov Motor Company website about the advantages of the lip seal vs. the o-ring seal. It's in their tech tips section.
I do not use Dot5 because of the racing I do. The Dot5 is silicone and will boil too easily. I use Valvoline Synpower DOT3-4 and it has never boiled. The Dot5 will also displace any moisture in your lines and it will collect in the lowest portion of your system where it will cause rust. Dot3-4 actually absorbs the moiture and can be drained from the system with regular bleeding.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,445
Likes: 971
From: Tennessee/Rhode Island
Just a piece of trivia: The 78 Corvette in 1978 when compared against all the cars tested by Road and Track that year had the 3rd best/shortest stopping distance from 80 MPH-0, bested by only the Porsche 930 Turbo and the Ferrari 512BB-the difference was <5 feet amongst the 3 cars!
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 571
Likes: 5
From: usa
well, I seemed to have stired up the pot a bit.
lucky for me it turns out when they redid the interior in my car, I believe they put a dash light in the brake warning light spot.
it actually is only on when the running lights are on.
firm peddle and stops well, althought I haven't tried to lock them down yet.
lucky for me it turns out when they redid the interior in my car, I believe they put a dash light in the brake warning light spot.
it actually is only on when the running lights are on.
firm peddle and stops well, althought I haven't tried to lock them down yet.
Pro
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 523
Likes: 4
From: Calgary Alberta
why is it that brakes seem to be a problem on corvettes,
I am new to vette ownership, and it seems like any car that sits for any amoun t of time , needs the brakes rebuilt.
yet in my experience with camaros and other GM's that is can sit for years and rarely have any disc brakes issues?
my 73 just lite up the brake warning light, which never show up on the trest drive.....go figure!
I am new to vette ownership, and it seems like any car that sits for any amoun t of time , needs the brakes rebuilt.
yet in my experience with camaros and other GM's that is can sit for years and rarely have any disc brakes issues?
my 73 just lite up the brake warning light, which never show up on the trest drive.....go figure!
I did a lot of thinking about the brakes on my 77 before I made a decision. I decided to go with the Wilwood D8-4 calipers and EBC rotors. I knew my car would never be fully restored and would never be a show car, so I thought about making the performance better and making the brakes more reliable and have less maintenance.
I like the fact that the calipers are aluminum and they have stainless pistons and Wilwood seals that won't leak over time. I figured the investment looked good and performed better. It was also a safety decision to make sure stopping would not be an issue.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,797
Likes: 608
From: Dallas Georgia
2020 Corvette of the Year Finalist (track prepared)
C3 of Year Winner (track prepared) 2019
Hi 4 speed,
I did a lot of thinking about the brakes on my 77 before I made a decision. I decided to go with the Wilwood D8-4 calipers and EBC rotors. I knew my car would never be fully restored and would never be a show car, so I thought about making the performance better and making the brakes more reliable and have less maintenance.
I like the fact that the calipers are aluminum and they have stainless pistons and Wilwood seals that won't leak over time. I figured the investment looked good and performed better. It was also a safety decision to make sure stopping would not be an issue.
I did a lot of thinking about the brakes on my 77 before I made a decision. I decided to go with the Wilwood D8-4 calipers and EBC rotors. I knew my car would never be fully restored and would never be a show car, so I thought about making the performance better and making the brakes more reliable and have less maintenance.
I like the fact that the calipers are aluminum and they have stainless pistons and Wilwood seals that won't leak over time. I figured the investment looked good and performed better. It was also a safety decision to make sure stopping would not be an issue.
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,839
Likes: 45
From: nassau co. new york
this has been an interesting thread and i'm suprised at all the different experiences you guy's are having.when i bought my car in 2010 it had been used only 1k miles in 9 years and none of the calipers leaked.not sure if they were lip or o-ring seals.they pulled and squeeled a bit so i replaced all the calipers with o-ring sealed rebuilt delco moraine bodies.5 had to be returned for leakage so i ended up with one lonestar new caliper in the front.after bleeding a few times and some pad wear in i now have very good brakes although i have not tried to lock them up i feel i could now.i'm kinda going with the guy's saying they are a good system not being repaired properly.
Last edited by billcarson; Apr 30, 2013 at 09:22 AM.
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Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,222
Likes: 93
From: shelbyville West Michigan
I asked the same question about old ironhead brakes on a harley board which led to my doing a six-sigma analysis on braking theory resulting in proving that the appropriate brake force, clamping pressure, system pressure etc. can easily be matched to the dynamic axle load, and that for the most part, manufactures got it right the first time. Unfortunately I wound up with the thread getting locked...but I digress
From personal experience, I have owned a '73 camaro, 2-77 novas, and a 68 impala. I can tell you that the brakes on my '68 vette are vastly superior than any of those vehicles. If someone can supply the appropriate data, I will run it through my spreadsheet formulas and do a direct head to head comparison to see if the numbers paint the same picture or not.
From personal experience, I have owned a '73 camaro, 2-77 novas, and a 68 impala. I can tell you that the brakes on my '68 vette are vastly superior than any of those vehicles. If someone can supply the appropriate data, I will run it through my spreadsheet formulas and do a direct head to head comparison to see if the numbers paint the same picture or not.
Terrorizing Orange Cones
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,572
Likes: 17
From: Northern CO
...
then if you brakes still suck like a vacuum booster does, put on Hydroboot conversion...you brake pedal will be fine at that point.....
the stock booster with the 4 wheel disc brakes is worse than the typical GM car even yet....soft as sand, and really scarey feeling,
even though my car would stop alright, that ~4" of pedal travel down to the floor, almost, would drive me nutz....hated that feeling....
...
then if you brakes still suck like a vacuum booster does, put on Hydroboot conversion...you brake pedal will be fine at that point.....
the stock booster with the 4 wheel disc brakes is worse than the typical GM car even yet....soft as sand, and really scarey feeling,
even though my car would stop alright, that ~4" of pedal travel down to the floor, almost, would drive me nutz....hated that feeling.......
The braking system was the very first item I chose to fix after parking mine for a frame-on restore. I read a lot of positive benefits of the 16-piston system in a late C2/all C3 cars and decided to focus on all the recent technology that corrected the weak links discovered in years past.
I filled the new system with DOT5 and for my primary use of highway driving, I'm very pleased with the final outcome.
I also knew that with the camshaft that I chose to run, designed vacuum wasn't consistently going to be available for something as critical as stopping. That's the primary reason why I installed a hydroboost and now I have the best of many worlds.
I have also done brake work to a few old cars and they always needed replacement parts to restore proper operation. Especially if it's been sitting in the elements with the weeds growing around it.
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,372
Likes: 4
From: Springfield VA
Yea I am rebuilding all my calipers with o-rings and the rotors are very thin and rusty, front is still factory.
My MC looks like it has mud in the bottom of it. The calipers also had gunk in them and the front leaked due to the run out of the rotors, and just age as well.
Rear is done and now sand blasting the front this weekend.
My MC looks like it has mud in the bottom of it. The calipers also had gunk in them and the front leaked due to the run out of the rotors, and just age as well.
Rear is done and now sand blasting the front this weekend.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 925
Likes: 7
You guys are making me feel guilty. I have SS-sleeved regular seal calipers in front and SS-sleeved o-ring jobs on the back. I haven't bleed them in more than 6 years and I have a real good pedal on a manual brake car. I should bleed 'em and see if I can throw myself through the windshield.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 6,719
Likes: 1,375
I put the Wilwoods on mine last summer....
when the forum had the group buy. They are fantastic. Havent' touched them since.....I can let it sit a month and I get in and my pedal is fantastic.....shoulda done it years ago.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,445
Likes: 971
From: Tennessee/Rhode Island
Like I said previously, I have regular sealed, not O-ringed sealed, SS calipers from VBP that I installed in 1985 at all 4 wheels and I have never had a problem with the brakes-period. I change the brake fluid every 3-4 years and the car sits for MONTHS at a time in the winter. I get out and go in the springtime-never had an issue. A properly functioning C3 OEM (SS calipered C3) brake system will function correctly without any unusual maintenance.
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,879
Likes: 38
From: Los Gatos CA
Ok, if the system is working, you have good brakes.
The problem is, getting the system working is difficult in many cases.
Perhaps more people have problems than not.
Those are the numbers and that's why I say these brakes are a bad design.
Brakes should be easy.
The problem is, getting the system working is difficult in many cases.
Perhaps more people have problems than not.
Those are the numbers and that's why I say these brakes are a bad design.
Brakes should be easy.
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,112
Likes: 28
From: Florida
So which do you really have, orings or lip seals?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 6,134
Likes: 46
From: Raleigh North Carolina
C2/C3 brakes are easy.. for a competent mechanic. I never had any problems servicing them. I have had many people bring their C2/C3's to me after they and their "mechanic" had spent countless hours trying to repair the brakes. I would have it all sorted out in a matter of minutes. As for the design... as noted above... it's 1965. You cannot make a fair comparison to todays technology. Apples & Oranges. For 1965 the design was fine. As far as I'm concerned... it still is if worked on by a competent mechanic.
Pro
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 721
Likes: 105
From: hernando fl
if anyone hasn't noticed there seems to be a few brake threads on the forum now,same old problems and questions. after reading through these threads i have come to the conclusion (some) people just don't understand how a brake system works. as mentioned above a competent person who understands what each component does and how all the components work together seem to have fewer (no) problems than folks who know how to bleed brakes but really don't understand the ins and outs of what they are actually trying to acomplish.