Compatability HELP
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 193
Likes: 2
From: Illinois
Compatability HELP
I found a guy who's parting out a complete 89 Vette, 350 TPI w / 700R4 tranny. He states the roller engine was recently rebuilt, alum heads, tuned port injection, runs great. And the tranny was aslo rebuilt with a fresh redline performance clutch pack.
I Have a 76 350, 350TH tranny.
First question, Would this be a drop in swap? If not what issues should I expect to deal with.
Second, what els should I accuire besides motor and tranny?? I am aware that I will need engine / tranny wire harness, ECM, and high press fuel pump fuel pump, air intake plumbing, and perhaps throttle and tranny cables that hook to throttle body
My current 350 is a numbers match and tired. Thought of rebuilding but like the Idea of pulling that whole package to set aside for the next owner and going with my own TPI power package that I might keep for the next one when I sell the car.
I can get the whole 89 package for 1400.00. Kinda hard to pass up.
Thanks,
Mike.
I Have a 76 350, 350TH tranny.
First question, Would this be a drop in swap? If not what issues should I expect to deal with.
Second, what els should I accuire besides motor and tranny?? I am aware that I will need engine / tranny wire harness, ECM, and high press fuel pump fuel pump, air intake plumbing, and perhaps throttle and tranny cables that hook to throttle body
My current 350 is a numbers match and tired. Thought of rebuilding but like the Idea of pulling that whole package to set aside for the next owner and going with my own TPI power package that I might keep for the next one when I sell the car.
I can get the whole 89 package for 1400.00. Kinda hard to pass up.
Thanks,
Mike.
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,615
Likes: 150
From: Forth Worth TX
I guess it all depends on how much time and money you want to throw at it? To start with the transmissions are different lengths. Not sure how the mountings would line up. Driveshaft length?
It sure seems like a lot of unnecessary work to swap this engine/tranny combination. I'd just build another 350 or rebuild yours.
It sure seems like a lot of unnecessary work to swap this engine/tranny combination. I'd just build another 350 or rebuild yours.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 193
Likes: 2
From: Illinois
I guess it all depends on how much time and money you want to throw at it? To start with the transmissions are different lengths. Not sure how the mountings would line up. Driveshaft length?
It sure seems like a lot of unnecessary work to swap this engine/tranny combination. I'd just build another 350 or rebuild yours.
It sure seems like a lot of unnecessary work to swap this engine/tranny combination. I'd just build another 350 or rebuild yours.
I also have the option of buying either the 89 engine or tranny only. 900.00 for the engine. 500.00 for the tranny. I really don't think I could buy and rebuild a 350 for that kind of money. The engine swap Is my primary objective but if I could upgrade to a tranny with OD that cheep it sounds pretty tempting. I'm in Illinois so it's about time for a winter project.
thanks.
Instructor
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 152
Likes: 0
I am in the early stages (planning and buying parts) of a similar swap from a 91 Vette to my 80.
The tail housings on the Vette 700R4 are different from "normal cars", to borrow a phrase from a fellow forumite, and will add a dgree of difficulty to the project and as mentioned the drive shaft will have to shortened and a vehicle speed sensor w/ a cable drive of some sort will have to be used in order to use your speedo. I believe a 77 and older fuel tank will pose a few more difficulties in modifying your fuel delivery system as opposed to the 78-82's.
Lot's of folks love these setups. Good luck with it!
The tail housings on the Vette 700R4 are different from "normal cars", to borrow a phrase from a fellow forumite, and will add a dgree of difficulty to the project and as mentioned the drive shaft will have to shortened and a vehicle speed sensor w/ a cable drive of some sort will have to be used in order to use your speedo. I believe a 77 and older fuel tank will pose a few more difficulties in modifying your fuel delivery system as opposed to the 78-82's.
Lot's of folks love these setups. Good luck with it!
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 37,637
Likes: 3,114
From: Crossville TN
That drivetrain is not a "direct" install, but it won't take much to get it to fit. If you install the entire drivetrain, you must also install the computer system so that it is managed properly. Then, you will have to figure out how to interconnect your gauges to that drivetrain's sensors. That is probably a 'brain teaser', but I'm sure others have done it and can be of help to get yours rigged properly.
That sounds like a great upgrade for your car. I can provide some details on the 700R4 install, since I put one in my '71 a couple of years ago.
Items involved: some modification of the trans mount crossbrace (or purchase of aftermarket brace made for the 700R4), not sure if driveshaft has to be shortened (I had to shorten mine with the THM-400), install a T.V. cable and get it adjusted properly.
I think there may be some lengthy threads on doing this swap already in the archives. Do a SEARCH on C4 drivetrain install and see what you find.
That sounds like a great upgrade for your car. I can provide some details on the 700R4 install, since I put one in my '71 a couple of years ago.
Items involved: some modification of the trans mount crossbrace (or purchase of aftermarket brace made for the 700R4), not sure if driveshaft has to be shortened (I had to shorten mine with the THM-400), install a T.V. cable and get it adjusted properly.
I think there may be some lengthy threads on doing this swap already in the archives. Do a SEARCH on C4 drivetrain install and see what you find.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 818
Likes: 0
From: coon rapids mn
you could put a carb and intake on the vette motor .you can make a adapter to mount the trans to your current cross member ,or buy a tail shaft housing for a 700r4 that came from a impala ,f-body ,2wd truck.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 193
Likes: 2
From: Illinois
I am in the early stages (planning and buying parts) of a similar swap from a 91 Vette to my 80.
The tail housings on the Vette 700R4 are different from "normal cars", to borrow a phrase from a fellow forumite, and will add a dgree of difficulty to the project and as mentioned the drive shaft will have to shortened and a vehicle speed sensor w/ a cable drive of some sort will have to be used in order to use your speedo. I believe a 77 and older fuel tank will pose a few more difficulties in modifying your fuel delivery system as opposed to the 78-82's.
Lot's of folks love these setups. Good luck with it!
The tail housings on the Vette 700R4 are different from "normal cars", to borrow a phrase from a fellow forumite, and will add a dgree of difficulty to the project and as mentioned the drive shaft will have to shortened and a vehicle speed sensor w/ a cable drive of some sort will have to be used in order to use your speedo. I believe a 77 and older fuel tank will pose a few more difficulties in modifying your fuel delivery system as opposed to the 78-82's.
Lot's of folks love these setups. Good luck with it!
Thanks.
Instructor
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 152
Likes: 0
Your C3 drive shaft should fit the rear of the 700r4. It will just need to be shortened. I'm told an 82 drive shaft will work but not sure with the Vette tranny. It's a tad shorter overall than other 700R4's.
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,922
Likes: 839
From: melbourne florida
2023 C3 of the Year Finalist - Modified
it would make a nice drivable combination and 20+ m.p.g . the motor bolts right in but as mentioned the trans crossmember needs work. i am sure the wiring can be done but may be a bit of a hassle.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 193
Likes: 2
From: Illinois
That drivetrain is not a "direct" install, but it won't take much to get it to fit. If you install the entire drivetrain, you must also install the computer system so that it is managed properly. Then, you will have to figure out how to interconnect your gauges to that drivetrain's sensors. That is probably a 'brain teaser', but I'm sure others have done it and can be of help to get yours rigged properly.
That sounds like a great upgrade for your car. I can provide some details on the 700R4 install, since I put one in my '71 a couple of years ago.
Items involved: some modification of the trans mount crossbrace (or purchase of aftermarket brace made for the 700R4), not sure if driveshaft has to be shortened (I had to shorten mine with the THM-400), install a T.V. cable and get it adjusted properly.
I think there may be some lengthy threads on doing this swap already in the archives. Do a SEARCH on C4 drivetrain install and see what you find.
That sounds like a great upgrade for your car. I can provide some details on the 700R4 install, since I put one in my '71 a couple of years ago.
Items involved: some modification of the trans mount crossbrace (or purchase of aftermarket brace made for the 700R4), not sure if driveshaft has to be shortened (I had to shorten mine with the THM-400), install a T.V. cable and get it adjusted properly.
I think there may be some lengthy threads on doing this swap already in the archives. Do a SEARCH on C4 drivetrain install and see what you find.
I've been reading about the shifter issues. That lead me to the "Shiftworks" website. Did you have any probs in this area??
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 193
Likes: 2
From: Illinois
I am in the early stages (planning and buying parts) of a similar swap from a 91 Vette to my 80.
The tail housings on the Vette 700R4 are different from "normal cars", to borrow a phrase from a fellow forumite, and will add a dgree of difficulty to the project and as mentioned the drive shaft will have to shortened and a vehicle speed sensor w/ a cable drive of some sort will have to be used in order to use your speedo. I believe a 77 and older fuel tank will pose a few more difficulties in modifying your fuel delivery system as opposed to the 78-82's.
Lot's of folks love these setups. Good luck with it!
The tail housings on the Vette 700R4 are different from "normal cars", to borrow a phrase from a fellow forumite, and will add a dgree of difficulty to the project and as mentioned the drive shaft will have to shortened and a vehicle speed sensor w/ a cable drive of some sort will have to be used in order to use your speedo. I believe a 77 and older fuel tank will pose a few more difficulties in modifying your fuel delivery system as opposed to the 78-82's.
Lot's of folks love these setups. Good luck with it!
Do you have any details/sources for the speedo hookup yet? Also regarding the fuel delivery, I understand all you need is to install an electric high press fuel pump (I can get the one off the donor car) as well as a low press return line back to tank. I currently have a small leak at the tank which I believe is one of the old rubber interconnecting lines. I will be dropping the tank for that repair and address the return line issue while I'm there.
Instructor
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 152
Likes: 0
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 193
Likes: 2
From: Illinois
Thanks, yes you're right. This car is a driver and a hobby. The 89 engine transplant is a stock engine. I believe I'll gain some marginal HP over the 76 350. So yes, utalizing the existing return line will simplify the transplant. By the way do you know the HP difference??
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 193
Likes: 2
From: Illinois
Since I first posted this thread I've been searching this forum for "C4 drivetrain swap" as suggested. That said, general opinion seems to be the 700R4 tranny is "less" desirable than a 200R4. Some feel the increased jump in the 1st gear to 2nd gear ratio is to great. And the 700 is more tempermental re shift points in general.
Should I re-think my use of the available 700, pass it up and look for a 200 instead. I'm not worried about the additional work required to swap to the 700 but I just want the best tranny for my car.
Thanks.
Should I re-think my use of the available 700, pass it up and look for a 200 instead. I'm not worried about the additional work required to swap to the 700 but I just want the best tranny for my car.
Thanks.
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 37,637
Likes: 3,114
From: Crossville TN
The differences between the 700R4 and the 200-4R are miniscule when considering one or the other for a 'daily driver'. If you have the whole drivetrain and computer, keep it together and use it.
Instructor
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 152
Likes: 0
I'm still looking at some serious tinkering (especially with the harness) but I know this combo was running together a few weeks ago and I figure it's my best bet for now. If I end up having to punt, there are always stand alone harnesses and 01277230 ecm's to fall back on.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 8,918
Likes: 27
From: New Hill NC
That is the exact swap that I did with my 66 driver car. I used every junk yard part I could find and did not use any aftermarket parts to hold cost down.
The transmission mounting is no problem with a little mod to the cross member or an 82 cross member. The drive shaft will need to be shortened. I used a Chev. Celebrity electric fan. The original wiring harness and computer with all of the extraneous stuff cut out. I used a mechanical speedo drive and a half of a 70s cruise control unit, to drive a Celebrity speed sensor. I used a 75 corvette tac put into the 66 panel. I used The original 89 shifter with a modified cable out the bottom. I cut up the sender and pump unit and insalled it in the tank, using the original sender for the return. I adjusted the governor to operate shifts like I want.
This was just an exercise for me, but it can be done for almost no cost. It is easier to use a bunch of aftermarket specialty items, but much more expense. The car operates just like an 89 except a little quicker.
The transmission mounting is no problem with a little mod to the cross member or an 82 cross member. The drive shaft will need to be shortened. I used a Chev. Celebrity electric fan. The original wiring harness and computer with all of the extraneous stuff cut out. I used a mechanical speedo drive and a half of a 70s cruise control unit, to drive a Celebrity speed sensor. I used a 75 corvette tac put into the 66 panel. I used The original 89 shifter with a modified cable out the bottom. I cut up the sender and pump unit and insalled it in the tank, using the original sender for the return. I adjusted the governor to operate shifts like I want.
This was just an exercise for me, but it can be done for almost no cost. It is easier to use a bunch of aftermarket specialty items, but much more expense. The car operates just like an 89 except a little quicker.
Instructor
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 152
Likes: 0
That is the exact swap that I did with my 66 driver car. I used every junk yard part I could find and did not use any aftermarket parts to hold cost down.
The transmission mounting is no problem with a little mod to the cross member or an 82 cross member. The drive shaft will need to be shortened. I used a Chev. Celebrity electric fan. The original wiring harness and computer with all of the extraneous stuff cut out. I used a mechanical speedo drive and a half of a 70s cruise control unit, to drive a Celebrity speed sensor. I used a 75 corvette tac put into the 66 panel. I used The original 89 shifter with a modified cable out the bottom. I cut up the sender and pump unit and insalled it in the tank, using the original sender for the return. I adjusted the governor to operate shifts like I want.
This was just an exercise for me, but it can be done for almost no cost. It is easier to use a bunch of aftermarket specialty items, but much more expense. The car operates just like an 89 except a little quicker.
The transmission mounting is no problem with a little mod to the cross member or an 82 cross member. The drive shaft will need to be shortened. I used a Chev. Celebrity electric fan. The original wiring harness and computer with all of the extraneous stuff cut out. I used a mechanical speedo drive and a half of a 70s cruise control unit, to drive a Celebrity speed sensor. I used a 75 corvette tac put into the 66 panel. I used The original 89 shifter with a modified cable out the bottom. I cut up the sender and pump unit and insalled it in the tank, using the original sender for the return. I adjusted the governor to operate shifts like I want.
This was just an exercise for me, but it can be done for almost no cost. It is easier to use a bunch of aftermarket specialty items, but much more expense. The car operates just like an 89 except a little quicker.
Did you keep the Vette tail housing and mod the crossmember to work with it or swap tail housing for one with botttom mount holes? ? Which ecm did you use?