Recently my 89 roller 350 in my 82 CE started to sound like it was misfiring. I went through the entire ignition system and all is well. So I decided to pop the valve covers off for inspection. I discovered several rockers that looked like they were discolored or blued. Here is the history

89 355 CI
Completion Cams self aligning roller rockers 1.5
Edelbrock Rolling Thunder Cam
Vortec Heads Machined for high lift cam
Stock Roller / Hydraulic lifters
Stock push rods
JE Flattop pistons 10.5 to1
Eagle rotating assembly




Could I have adjusted the valves too tight on these cylinders?

 

Thats weird man. I usually associate bluing like that with excessive heat. Are they getting the right amount of oil to them? Maybe turn engine over to see what there are doing with distributer unplugged.

 

I have an old set if valve covers I'm going to cut open so I can view and adjust the rockers if needed. If there is any other way without making a huge mess please let me know. It's been years since I did this

 

That's the way I always adjust-just don't cut the slot too wide or oil will run out

 

Did you apply ANY APPROVED lubrication at the tip of the push rod?

If not...that "could be" the problem...ESPECIALLY if when the engine was cranked and went through the "break-in" procedure for the cam...which I have been told to do it for roller lifters also.

DID you prime the engine with oil...via spinning the oil pump to get oil out of each push rod tip at the rocker arms BEFORE the initial fire up???? IF not...not too good. This can cause the tips of the rocker to get hot and blue...due to lack of oil....if they were not applied with some cam-lifter assembly lube, etc. Priming the engine should let you know if you have an issue in proper oiling...like DM76 mentioned. I would now be suspect if they are good...push rods and lifters. If it were in my shop and this was found...I would have to go through a tear down and begin replacing visually damaged parts right off the bat. To get it to blue...it got REALLY HOT.


You can "cold-set " the valves. I do it like that all the time and have no problems in doing it. many of the engines I work on are so SWEET...I do not want to make a mess...even with my special cut out valve covers and such...that I do it like it is outlined in the factory service manual ( for factory stock engines...or manually turn the engine and adjust them accordingly( for the radical cam engines)...much like the valves of a Nitro Methane engine...which are solid lift.

DUB

 

There is no such thing as "too tight" - either the valves were adjusted correctly or they weren't...how did you adjust them?

Was there a difference in the amount of oil sitting around the stud in the rockers that showed bluing vs. those that didn't? I'd suspect that those rocker ***** weren't - or aren't - getting the lubrication needed. It might be worth pulling the distributor and turning the oil pump with a drive and drill to see oil coming up through the pushrod - way less of a mess than open covers.

The miss is a bigger concern to me, and I doubt that's directly related to the bluing on the rockers - if the valves weren't adjusted correctly, you've got lobe wear.

The process used to adjust the rockers will probably tell the tale.

 

I recall that I rotated the engine until the exhaust starts to open and tighten till I hit zero lash then 1/2 turn more.

I primed the engine while it was out of the car and I got oil flow at all rockers and once again just before startup.

How would a wiped cam cause a misfire? I'm going to start teardown on Monday after work.

Intake
Rockers
Push Rods

Is there a way to inspect the cam while it's in the car I really don't want to pull the engine again.. I will if I have to swap cams. I might as well do it properly over the winter

 

Its hard to tell from the photo, but they look like Vortec heads, and as far as I know all Vorted heads require the self aligning rockers. Heads with self aligning rockers have large holes for the pushrods to pass through. My thought is if the heads had the small pushrod slots and you had the self aligning rockers as well there could be binding between the slots and the pushrods. There is no significant lubrication of the outside of the pushrods. If they are binding, they could get real hot. Something to check.

 

This is pretty incomplete - do you mean that for each cylinder you turned the engine until the exhaust started to open, then adjusted the intake valve for that cylinder, then rotated the engine until the intake was fully closed and adjusted the exhaust valve for that cylinder (EO/IC method)?

If that's the process you followed, then I'd assume that you didn't correctly locate zero lash - most folks go well past. It's when you feel the first HINT of no play in the pushrod.

If that's NOT the process you followed, then here's an outline of how to do it right. Regardless, doing this adjustment - ideally with someone that's done it before - is the first step. No reason to get wound up about a worn lobe until you're sure the valves are adjusted right.

http://www.carcraft.com/howto/ccrp_0702_camshaft/

If the valves are adjusted wrong or a lobe is worn then either the cylinder isn't getting a full intake charge or isn't getting rid of the exhaust - that will typically show up as rough running or a miss.

 

DRWET You are correct they are Vortec heads and I used Comp Cams Roller Tip Self Aligning rockers along with the stock pushrods. I check them for straightness and pre lubed everything. I guess when I pull it apart I will look for the clearance.
Thank you

 

The rockers he's showing are self-aligning; look at the washers on either end of the roller tip to keep the tip on the valve stem

The pushrod holes really aren't different - and typically pushrods will just wear their way through cast iron if something's binding. I see this all the time with folks adding 1.6 rockers without slotting the rocker holes...they get slotted in the car ;-)

 

billa I'm sorry you are correct I did that for each cylinder. I must have mis-adjusted the two valves that have the blued rockers. If I mis-adjusted would the cam be wiped even if I have roller lifters? I guess when I get the intake off I can inspect it further.

Thank you

 

The rockers are 1.5 I didn't think I need to slot the openings for stock rockers

 

No worries - it's always tough typing stuff out vs. just talking it out

I'd just do a re-adjustment of the valves and see what happens. For a roller cam, I'd expect roller failure before lobe failure...but the additional lash may be why those two are getting so hot.

The easiest way to tell if you have a wiped lobe is to change the oil and cut apart the oil filter...if there's serious metal, then you have something you need to look further at.

There's no need to slot the pushrod holes for 1.5 ratio. But you should always check the clearance during installation.

 

It's funny that I should do an oil change. I just did that today and the magnet had nothing on it and I wrapped up the oil filter to cut open at a later date. Looks like its going to be sooner than later.

Thank you for your help I will keep everybody posted when I re-lash the valves.

Stay tuned

 

Well I pulled some rockers off and discovered cyl #4 exhaust pushrod bent


The rocker looks fine. What's next?

 

Cool - that's GOOD news, mostly There's your miss, anyway.


The question is why it bent, and there are a number of reasons. If you can borrow a borescope, it'd be nice to have a look inside the cylinder and ensure the valve didn't kiss the piston. This is also a good time to check the valvespring clearances to ensure the springs aren't close to going solid...which is what I suspect happened here with an incorrect valve lash.


Check ALL the pushrods by rolling them on a precision flat surface (thick glass if nothing else), adjust the valves most carefully and fire it back up

 

I think Harbor Frt has a scope and I have a 25% coupon. If the piston looks okay I going to put new Chromemoly rods in it

 

Ok here is the latest. I pulled valve covers and rockers and discovered a bent #4 exhaust pushrod. Then discovered a broken spring on the same valve. So I decided to pull the intake and started to remove the head and ran out of time and daylight.

To be continued ...

 

Broken spring, pushrods jumps out of lifter, rides outer edge holding valve open, BANG!, piston smacks valve.....