Always a good choice Do you already have this intake?

Kinda big at this power level - again, already on the car?

 

Excellent information. This is my first attempt doing performance upgrades.

The AFR 195 heads mentioned have much better flow numbers than the heads I've been looking at.

I have been caught up in the compression and had talked myself in to thinking I needed 10:1 to make decent power.

There is a lot more options in 64cc head vs. 56-58 which I have been looking for. AFR heads stand out as having higher advertised flow numbers made in USA and highly recommended.

 

Yes I installed them early this spring on the stock L-48 recurved the dist per Lars papers and installed a jegs qjet. That alone made huge improvement to the low end torque.
The sidepipe header only come in the 1 7/8 primaries for a small block. Knowing ill be giving up some power using them....ive wanted a vette with side pipes since I was a kid and used to see the out on Woodward.

 

I'm running the same intake and exhaust as you have. No complaints on the exhaust. I'm sure there is some low end loss due to the size of the primaries but the look and sound is what I'm after anyhow. Running STS baffles for minimum restriction but still some noise moderation, I think they sound good.
The 2101 intake could be part or most of my rpm restriction above 5700 rpm. It's rated for up to 5500 rpm so I guess anything above that is bonus.
There is no question that the AFR heads are superior to most other heads in the flow department. Question is are they more than what you need for the $$ spent. Always a balancing act. If you do build a 383 down the road and they are used on that as well, then it's money well spent.

 

The AFR heads will cost you an extra $300. The valvetrain pieces are much lighter weight on the AFR's (lighter parts = increased RPM before valve float), They flow as well as most if not all 210 heads out there with a smaller port to keep velocity up and maintain low end power. They are available with a wide variety of spring options, most heads have 1-2 options. If you don't have to resetup and buy different springs that $300 difference decreases drastically. Flow = power potential. I think that 260 HP Crate engine will handle 400 HP and 5500 RPM with occasional visits to <6000. Don't push it past. Milling and spring setup can be done by AFR before they get shipped to you but I would leave the chamber size as is.

 

Now would be the perfect time to change out the rotating assy for a 377 or 383, then buy a set of heads accordingly. The hp bug is extremely contagious so you might as well do more now, so you dont have to do things twice, lol.

 

that is my plan later once, I get my first under my belt.

 

It's pointless, Jerry. He's going to want another hundred horsepower sooner or later. Building the engine with an extra hundred horsepower now isn't going to keep that from happening.

Someone on this forum, I don't remember who exactly, advocated a cheap way to build a 383 (well, a 377, actually) using a Goodwrench engine. It involved using an el cheapo 3.75" crank, and milling the stock pistons to attain the correct deck height. Let's see, an extra .270" of stroke would mean you would need to remove .135" from the pistons. Assuming a .025" stock deck height, removing .110" from the piston face would give you a zero deck. Plus, it would remove a good portion of the dish, maybe all of it. Does anybody know how deep the dish is on the stock pistons? Or how much it would cost to have 8 pistons milled? It's kind of an interesting idea, I'd love to see someone try it out and see if it actually works.

Scott

 

I have sent a request form to AFR and will let you know what they recommend. Extra money spent now will save me later when I do build a stroker.
With the 195 will there be a issue using in intake port size between the intake and head? port match the intake to the head?

 

Both the heads and the intake call for a 1.28 x 2.09 gasket.

 

Well, you're asking all the right questions now - we've moved from "will these heads work" to "what's the best combination?" - and that's a Good Thing

And that's the key word - combination. Balance. This is what makes an engine work well - not one particular part, but the overall combination. You're already finding how one choice affects so many others - the choice of the 350/260 and other parts are imposing some level of constraint on your build, and you're having to plan around it.

The intake is fine for moderate heads, and although the headers are losing ~3-5% of HP and torque at the low- and mid-range, and some at the top...I totally get the sidepipe thing...looking at that BFG poster of the blue '69 with pipes and Torque-Thrust Ds right now...I get it

I'd suggest you take a moment and ask yourself a few key questions:

What do YOU think the constraints on this engine should be? It's all about risk assessment, but your planning should reflect a clear decision on your part how much power you want to make and how many RPM you want to turn. This decision will impact many other choices - so consider carefully.

How much money do you want to spend on this engine vs. the next one? This stems pretty naturally from the first question - do you want to add some power and fun for a reasonable price, or do you want to try to max out what you can get from the 350/260 shortblock? You can spend money on AFR heads with all the associated parts and suggested special machining, choke them with a low-rise dual plane and undercam them so they produce only what the shortblock will support...but in that case, what did you really get? Are they right for this build, or just a workaround so you can use them on the next build and "save money"? Or would a decent set of iron heads with 64cc chambers, a new flat-tappet cam and the right quench get you what you want for a lot less money? Which leads us to the last question...

How confident are you that you know *exactly* what your next engine will be? This is a big one. If your next build is 2, 3 or more years out...do you really know what you want to build? A warm 383 or a hot 427? LSx? Big block? AFR heads are the best on the planet, and the 195's are the "utility infielder" - they're good at just about everything. But they won't support a hot 427 and won't fit an LS or BBC. Buying parts for "the next build, but they'll work 'OK' on this one" is why stuff ends up on Craigslist and racingjunk.com for pennies on the dollar. It just rarely works out in practice. As you learned here with your existing engine, why be forced to start a new build having to work around constraints?

No wrong answers to any of these and no bad guidance anywhere in the thread - just background for choices you need to make. I'm just encouraging you to make them explicitly vs. kind of falling into them so that as you look back you can learn from the experience.

 

and once you decide on what you want then shop for the component. not find a component and make it work, always a bad move

 

You could drive your vette now and start your next build now. Start the planning and accumulation process and drive your car while you do. I replaced the top end on the l48 to the tune of $2k and later built a 400 cid. Maybe I get bored, but if I'd been patient I wouldn't have spent the first $2k. Even if your next build involves your current block, you could start now and not actually build the engine until you accumulate all the needed parts. As billa Said it's a total combination, engine, stall converter(if auto tranny) and rear gears, they all need to match to get the most out of any build. Just my opinion. God luck.

 

Out of this build I am looking for reliability and good street performance . 99% of my driving will be weekend fun. Also plan to run it down the 1/4 a few times just to see what it will do and to compare to the stock times I have run with it. I want to build for the engine I have now not what I plan to build later. If some parts work well for this 350 and would be good on a 383 down the road that would be great.
in addition to swapping out the engine I am replacing all the accessories as well, alt, starter, water pump. Everything on my car is original. I went thru all the safety items brakes suspension ext. Now I'm on phase 2 making the drive train realiable and to increase the performamce . in addition to the engine I am installing a mono rear spring bilstine shocksu joints in the drive shaft and detailing under the hood. That this years winter project. And a full overhaul on the front suspension.
The advise I have been getting has helped my a lot on coming to a decision on this engine though. I will post what AFR recommends when they get back to me.

 

I did install the new 3.73 gears with my future plans in mind. I am also thinking about the 6 link from van steel or at least the half shaft loops

 

AFR's recommendation.


**** I would recommend a set of our 180cc Eliminators. Your specific combination would be able to harness the power potential of these heads. They flow remarkably well while retaining a relatively small intake runner volume. This increases the velocity of the intake charge resulting in not only a peak horsepower gain but also an increase in bottom end power. If you take the time to compare our heads with our competitors, pay attention to not only the peak flow numbers but also with flow ratings throughout the valve lift.

**** If you have any further questions, don’t hesitate to contact me. I look forward to hearing from you in the future and helping you to place your order.

I will also be contacting straub tech since they have a head / roller cam package for about the same cost as the AFR heads.

 

post what straub sends you.

 

I have the Patriots that won the budget head shoot out on a 350 CID crate engine. Package of $1700 includes:
Heads complete
Hyd roller
Morel lifters
ARP head bolts
Timing Chain
roller cam button
cam bolts
cam lock plate

From what I've noticed that Chris straub's customer service is top notch . others with very good customer service is crane cams and Howards..
I can't say that about a few other very well known performance companies .

 

Ask chris what upgrading to afrs would cost ya, he sells afrs also. I too have liked Mr chris' custmer service. If you went 180 cc afr, they might not be as good on a 383 but would build big power and mountains of torque. If you know for sure that your gonna build a 383, youd be money ahead to travel that path instead.

 

if he changes the heads he would need to look at the cam specs again. he specified a package based on what he told him he wanted, don't mess with it.

the only suggestion is studs instead of head bolts, they do cost more but really are better.

sounds like your ready to go good luck.