I own a 1971 ls5 that got a warranty replacement engine installed by the dealership with less than 2k miles due to a crack in the block. The pad on the front passenger side is stamped: CE 460 4 or 400 4. I question the 460 because the engine is higlhly detailed and the stamp depressions are filled with orange paint. Does anyone know what the correct stamp/suffix is for a factory warranty replacement short block? The car came from the factory with a 454cid/365hp/4 speed tranny. Is there a website/manual where this information is documented? I have a photo but am too user illiterate it add it.

Bob

 

Ooooppps......I did add the photo of the pad stamp.

 

That's a CE or (counter exchange) block not sure what the 400 stands for but I wouldn't worry too much, its not the original block for the car anyway...

 

That stinks. If it was clearly a GM engine that was 100% in conformance with the specifications for the engine that the car was "born" with and was installed by a GM dealer 2k miles into the life of the car...that puts the car in the same bucket as someone installing a truck engine into a Corvette?

If only folks knew this in 1971. If your block cracks because of a problem with the casting and GM replaces it, they're actually removing 50% (or more) of the value of your car because it is no longer "numbers matching". Should have made a stronger argument for them giving you a WHOLE NEW CAR.

My feeling would be that if this was a documented warranty item, it is part of the car's "story". As long as it was a true replacement to the car and was faithful (identical in every way) to the engine original to the car, it's just one of those things. It'd be a shame if the NCRS heavily deducted points for this type of thing IF IT COULD BE PROVEN that this is what indeed happened. Every car has a history...

 

As far as value goes CE blocks always have an impact. How much depends on the overall condition of the car and its documentation but it will always have a negative impact nonetheless.

This has always been the case unfortunately.

 

Hi Bob,
Yes, it's too bad about the replacement engine block.
At this point it would be interesting to check the components presently on the engine to see how many of the original parts may have been moved from the original engine.
Things like the carb, intake, heads, exhaust manifolds, water pump MAY have been moved and thus have numbers and date codes appropriate for your car's build date.
Having all those parts still in the car would be a VERY nice discovery. Remember, "matching numbers" extends FAR beyond the block's stamp pad, casting number, and casting date.
Maybe you'll be lucky!
Regards,
Alan

 

Alan, all of the engine components are correct ...right down to the casting on the water pump. Carb/intake/heads/starter, alternator are original to the car and have correct stamp/markings. It is unfortunate that the original owner had a coolant loss / overheating problem within the first few weeks of ownership. A crack in the water jacket was determined and a new short block was installed under warranty. It is a gorgeous two(2) owner C3 that has been professionally restored to factory original ....I cannot turn back the clock on the factory defective block.

Bob

 

There is no single "correct" stamping. All of them are stamped CE but other characters could vary.

 

That being the case it should retain a good deal of its value when compared apples to apples with an all matching numbers BB C3.

 

As others have said this is a GM replacement engine. The CE stands for Chevrolet Engine. The 4 immediately after the CE indicates that the engine was assembled in 1974 which doesn't quite match up with the story of the car having 2000 miles on it and being a few weeks old.

The remainder of the numbers are the sequence they were assembled in (obviously some of yours are painted over) but in no way can they be interpreted to being a specification, engine type or horsepower.

For the people that are upset at diminished value, things are no different today than back then. If an engine is replaced under warranty, there's no consideration for non 'numbers matching'.

 

Hi Bob,
That's GOOD news!
This does sound like a VERY nice car from what you describe. The CE block certainly doesn't diminish the pleasure you can derive from this car, nor the pride you can take in it!
Regards,
Alan

I even see some nice looking hose clamps in your pad picture.

 

Restamp it to your hearts content to whatever (I think guys do that all of the time- but won't admit to it ), but then keep the car forever, drive it and enjoy it and never sell it and you should stay happy!!! If it bothers you that much! Thus then you only have to worry about the casting #!!!!!

PS I will never fix the smiles function on my home lap top, but I think this gives a good politically correctness to this post with the smiles added!!!! How did I do everyone?????

 

Somebody p*ed in your cornflakes again?

 

Such a nice description of the car, and then it's nom?
More research on the purchase might be a better idea next time.

 

NCRS is not in the business of certifying or authenticate cars, their history or potential provenance.

The 'rules of competition' in flight judging are for cars to look exactly the way they did on the day of delivery to the first owner, and not what might have happened to them further down the road.

 

If the casting number is correct for the car, NCRS won't deduct that much from the scoring. A date code preceding the build date of the car, no more than 6 months, even better. The deduction for the stamp pad isn't that much. A mystery why the NCRS gets blamed for hyping the value of the stamp pad. It appears the scoring system actually down plays the significance of the stamp pad.

It's the collector market which places huge importance on the stamp pad, biggest reason there are people out there restamping blocks to make numbers match. Some even advertise having GM broaching machines or renting out the gang stamp with correct fonts for the given year.

The difference in value between a numbers matching car and a NOM may be only the cost to install a correct restamped block. Not ethical but it's been done...

 

 

Yes I didn't get my meds sent, but I borrowed some from someone else, so I am momentarily stable! Thanks for expressing concern about my morning corn flakes!!!!! Ok let's help the guy--- usually numbers like the 400 meant the 400th engine built in that year and the other 4 is 1974!!!!!! And not the build horsepower or anything exciting!!These blocks were marked usually on the crate as to how they were assembled to what level of tune (hp). Thus once out of the crate, there aren't any obvious markings or stamps to know whether someone doing the warranty work got the right LS-5 build CE engine out and installed!!! Thus the only way to tell is to disassemble and see what components are inside. There are no records on these serial numbered CE blocks!!!!! They usually said knock off 500 or 1000, we need 2-bolt or we need 4 bolt, and the department head would say out of the 500 make this many with the low hp goodies and this many with a middle tune, and you build some hot ones (we need yea many, get to it). Thus whatever guy was doing whatever tune would pick this head type and this cam type etc and then when finished label the crate! It is as simple as that!

But if you want to stop thinking about things, then look for a date appropriate correct casting number, as close to stock bore as is available replacement. Get the block prepped and if the CE has the right parts, swap it all over and get new pistons!!!!!!

Mike, how was that for helping the guy???? I think I did good!!!!

PS I am at work so I can do the smiles things!!! Here everyone!! :thu mbs::thu mbs::l urk::ac k::h ide::wooho o:

PS Everyone, I even edited and put smiles in my grumpy post above!!!!!!

 

Indeed and many corvettes for sale have stories associated with them. If there is written documentation of all the events that happened for this car at the time it occurred then all the better.

If there is no documentation and the story has simply been told over and over most educated buyers will dismiss the story as it didn't happen.

Nonetheless, the value of this car will not be based on $$$$ buy as Alan has stated, enjoyment of owning the car.

 

Go to his thread concerning how to market the car (now closed) http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c3-g...endations.html. There isn't a whole we can do to help him. It appears the discovery of the CE block is a recent revelation.